The UFC didn't have the lineal heavyweight title between 1997-2011.

stinkynecklace said:
Who would have thought a harmless thread like this would be such a trigger for some people? Hard to wrap my head around what’s so upsetting about it.
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It's probably just Pride/Fedor-haters, but they're harmless so it's no biggie.

Krixes said:
Man, this makes me think the HW division is regressing. We used to have some real monsters.
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I actually did a pretty thorough breakdown of the Heavyweight division in another thread:

acannxr said:
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Average age was below 30 between 1996-2006; oldest year was 2017.

acannxr said:
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Total ranked fighters peaked then leveled at 2005.

acannxr said:
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Turnover in the top ten (i.e. how many fighters got replaced in the top ten from the year prior) was at its worst in 2017.

Golden Era was 2004-2006, while 2017 was the worst year based on the above stats.
 
dipstickjimmy said:
Lineal champion is a boxing idea and it is valid in the sense that boxing is boxing. UFC rules in 1997 and not the same as today. Vale Tudo is different then Pride Rules. It gets quite muddied when that is the case. It would be like the World Series champions losing a soft ball game and declaring the softball team world series champions. Similar but not the same sport.

Jorge Masvidal won the Bellator Lineal WW champion. It has now been unified with the UFC WW title and is held by Usman.
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The mas example is why the ufc belts have so much prestige to them, the lineal strength of most smaller orgs has been unified to the ufc belt
 
Fedor confirmed HW GOAT. 7 year title reign. Also best thread I’ve seen on sherdog in fucking months
 
Phrozenspite said:
The mas example is why the ufc belts have so much prestige to them, the lineal strength of most smaller orgs has been unified to the ufc belt
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And what @dipstickjimmy doesn't realize is that there isn't more than one lineal champion in any one weight class.
 
It a known fact , Pride fixed fights so none of their crap mattered
 
So Reem has basically achieved his goal to become world HW champ, as he beat Werdum for the lineal. He can retire happy now.
 
Lineal is fun until we get a dominant champ that takes it and retires. Will be surprised if there is a lineal belt left in the next 20 years.
 
Mammothman said:
Should not Overeem be the lineal champ since he beat Werdum right after the Fedor fight?
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Technically, but we all know he didn't "beat" werdum that night, he was outstruck and outgrappled.
 
Not a bad idea the lineal talk but I think it goes to left field when its an organization with completely different rules . And we cant forget the fact the fixed fights . SO nothing in Pride is real lol
 
acannxr said:
There's a difference between a fighter retiring as the lineal champion and a fighter competing in a different organization as the lineal champion (which is what Couture did).


GSP vacated them, he didn't fight in a different organization.


And yet the UFC still unified the two titles.


My rationale doesn't come close to that type of leap in logic.
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Not arguing you are illogical at all. Just that the parameters in MMA especially pre Unified Rules vary from one promotion to another. Boxing isn't all that different from one to another from what I know (which isn't much regarding boxing).
 
acannxr said:
And what @dipstickjimmy doesn't realize is that there isn't more than one lineal champion in any one weight class.
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Really? So GSP retired as WW champion of the UFC. Nobody took it from him. So if Usman is the UFC Lineal WW champion that lineage is the only one? Lineal Champion is the man who beat the man. GSP is the man and nobody beat him for the title. Was Hendricks a Lineal champion? Then Robbie then Woodley then Usman? not much to talk about in that lineage.
 
dipstickjimmy said:
Really? So GSP retired as WW champion of the UFC. Nobody took it from him. So if Usman is the UFC Lineal WW champion that lineage is the only one? Lineal Champion is the man who beat the man. GSP is the man and nobody beat him for the title. Was Hendricks a Lineal champion? Then Robbie then Woodley then Usman? not much to talk about in that lineage.
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GSP vacated the lineal title, which means the next undisputed champion would be able to claim it.
 
acannxr said:
Couture was stripped of the UFC title because he signed with Vale Tudo Japan, but he was still the lineal champion.
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Lineal title's can't be vacated. Lineal is about tracing the lineage of title lines, when the holder retires, the lineage is dead until they fight again at that weight. It's the guy who beat the guy who beat the guy, etc, the two next in line don't get a win over him just because he retires.

Just think about it, you're treating Usman as THE lineal champ, but if GSP unretired and fought at welterweight he would magically become the lineal champ again? When a lineal champ retires it's just the start of another lineage, Usman is holder of the Hendricks-Lawler lineage (which has actually become pretty strong very quickly), whereas GSP holds the original pancrase lineage.

Basically the original lineages for Featherweight, Welterweight, Middleweight, and Lightheavyweight are de facto dead (unless Conor, GSP, or Jones fight at those weights again) and the current Champs are defending the new lineages which have all started within the last 5-10 years. Welterweight's is actually becoming pretty strong, featherweight's is okay, and middle and light heavy are both very weak at the moment. Actually fly and bantamweight lineages are dead too unless Cejudo comes back, but those divisions aren't nearly as old anyway.

Edit: That's actually not true for Bantam, since TJ's returning and never lost it
 
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Paolo Delutis said:
Its mean nothing...why put that much energy to something that means nothing... Doesnt prove a dam thing either which way. ..
...in its meaningfulness
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All titles mean nothing and prove nothing, the winner of any given fight proves who won the fight, and that's it. Titles are a promotional tool which also give an arbitrary goal for fighters in a division to work toward in order to enhance the sense of 'high stakes' being up for grabs and make the sport more entertaining.

Tracing title lineages is very interesting though.
 
TheBiggestLittleTinyMan said:
Basically the original lineages for Featherweight, Welterweight, Middleweight, and Lightheavyweight are de facto dead (unless Conor, GSP, or Jones fight at those weights again) and the current Champs are defending the new lineages which have all started within the last 5-10 years.
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The lineal middleweight title actually left the UFC with Bustamante back in 2002 and just got retired this year in Bellator.

Bustamante -> Henderson -> Misaki -> Filho -> Paraisy -> Falcão -> Shlemenko -> Halsey -> Carvalho -> Mousasi -> Lovato

Edited post to correct my timeline of the lineal middleweight title that @TheBiggestLittleTinyMan pointed out to me.
 
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acannxr said:
Couture was stripped of the UFC title because he signed with Vale Tudo Japan, but he was still the lineal champion.
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Or Couture vacated to go sign with Vale Tudo. Semantics play both ways. Its either Lineal or not. The Lineage ends when a fighter retires as GSP did. Randy can't lose the UFC HW lineal title if he were to lose to a LHW in a LHW fight. He also can't lose the UFC HW lineal fight playing tennis against another fighter. With the rules from one promotion to another being varied greatly there is no Linear title crossing from one promotion to another.

lin·e·al
/ˈlinēəl/
adjective
  1. in a direct line of descent or ancestry
 
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