The top fighters' greatest enemy, AND why GSP and Jones are special

[Kelman]

better strategy by Conor would only have delayed the finish.

That's what I said in my post. You're not in disagreement with me at all.

 

[Kelman]

What about Dominick Cruz? He's aware of his opponents strenghts, and also very respectful when it comes to talk objectively about the fighters

Yes. Another ATG fighter, another excellent example.

 

[Kelman]

Can't believe you left off Ronda.

I dont really think Ronda fits here.

She did try to get Holly down (the smart gameplan), she just couldnt get it done.

In all the examples I cited, the fighters didnt prepare as they should have and/or behaved very wrecklessly in the cage.

I dont think Ronda was underprepared or did anything crazy in there.

She was simply beaten fair and square by a physically, technically, and strategically better fighter.

Could Ronda have done better on another night? I dont think so. Holly knew how to defend against her throw attempts, and on the feet, well, Ronda just isnt that good really. Nothing to do with complacent preparation or in-cage hubris, she just doesnt have the striking skills to compete. She fought her aggressive boxing game as best she could. Just not good enough at all.

 

[helltoupee]

I dont really think Ronda fits here.

She did try to get Holly down (the smart gameplan), she just couldnt get it done.

In all the examples I cited, the fighters didnt prepare as they should have and/or behaved very wrecklessly in the cage.

I dont think Ronda was underprepared or did anything crazy in there.

She was simply beaten fair and square by a physically, technically, and strategically better fighter.

Could Ronda have done better on another night? I dont think so. Holly knew how to defend against her throw attempts, and on the feet, well, Ronda just isnt that good really. Nothing to do with complacent preparation or in-cage hubris, she just doesnt have the striking skills to compete. She fought her aggressive boxing game as best she could. Just not good enough at all.

Ronda basically bullrushed Holly, running into her fist over and over, and this was after her coach was saying in the leadup that Ronda was knocking out pro boxers in sparring practice. To me, she bought into this invincible mindset, and thought she could just do what she pleased in the ring. She displayed no fight IQ whatsoever, which seemed to me to just reek of what you were talking about.

And IIRC, Ronda only went for the clinch after she was rocked, which means after she ran into Holly's fist at full speed like an idiot a couple times. Let's not forget that Holly Holm is a pillow fisted point fighter - she has never been known to have much power - Ronda's idiocy made Holly look a lot better than she has shown to be in the past.

 

[Kelman]

Ronda basically bullrushed Holly, running into her fist over and over, and this was after her coach was saying in the leadup that Ronda was knocking out pro boxers in sparring practice. To me, she bought into this invincible mindset, and thought she could just do what she pleased in the ring. She displayed no fight IQ whatsoever, which seemed to me to just reek of what you were talking about.

And IIRC, Ronda only went for the clinch after she was rocked, which means after she ran into Holly's fist at full speed like an idiot a couple times. Let's not forget that Holly Holm is a pillow fisted point fighter - she has never been known to have much power - Ronda's idiocy made Holly look a lot better than she has shown to be in the past.

But Ronda still doesnt fit in my eyes because bullrushing IS her striking game. See the fights with Correia, McMann, Davis etc. She tried the same tactic vs Holly, and got lit up like fucking Christmas tree by just a smarter, better fighter.

Ronda was arrogant in that fight, but she's arrogant in every fight. Guys like Werdum and Aldo arent.

 

[Mr Wings]

Great post. I don't agree with every point necessarily, but well written and thought out.

Jones did admit to taking the Gustafsson fight lightly. More later.

 

[Boomb]

The way he ran at Miocic with no thought for defence whatsoever was ridiculous

I agree.

 

[Mr Wings]

Sooo...there is Werdum, lighting up Arlovski using the same approach.

Aldo; same thing. Running in with combos and lighting people up, until Conor.

When it works out for them, we think they're brilliant. When it doesn't, we suddenly think we know better than them.

Believe me Sherbros, I felt the same way; Werdum looked like a fool doing that. But, he's done it successfully in the past, so maybe he's not as much of a fool as we think.

 

[Bilbo Gaggins]

If Werdum embarrassed MMA with his fight, then you've embarrassed Sherdog with this post. And Sherdog is a dumpster fire, so...

someone point me to the dislike button

 

[JimtheJake]

Apparently he has a history of this kind of thing.

I think Cordeiro trains this into his fighters.

Werdum does it, Wanderlei does it and so does Shogun. That exact same striking rush I have seen from all of these guys.

 

[Workaholic]

I think Cordeiro trains this into his fighters.

Werdum does it, Wanderlei does it and so does Shogun. That exact same striking rush I have seen from all of these guys.

Agreed I've seen Shogun try this kind of blitz a bunch of times both successfully and unsuccessfully

Has to be a Cordeiro thing

 

[deviake]

Going to read this when I get a chance.

I think Cordeiro trains this into his fighters.

Werdum does it, Wanderlei does it and so does Shogun. That exact same striking rush I have seen from all of these guys.

Don't forget Babalu.

 

[Kelman]

Sooo...there is Werdum, lighting up Arlovski using the same approach.

Werdum didn't fight like that against Velasquez or Browne in some of his most recent performances.

Aldo; same thing. Running in with combos and lighting people up, until Conor.

More nonsense. Aldo is almost always way more measured in his attacks.

When it works out for them, we think they're brilliant.

But they don't fight like that. They don't do it, so the point is moot.

When it doesn't, we suddenly think we know better than them.

When it doesn't, we discuss it critically. Like we're doing now. Or were doing, till your post appeared.

Believe me Sherbros, I felt the same way; Werdum looked like a fool doing that. But, he's done it successfully in the past, so maybe he's not as much of a fool as we think.

No he hasn't. Not to anywhere near that extent.

 

[TUFNewb]

The man in your AV in his second fight with Edgar perhaps?

I remember thinking that fight BJ should've been trying to get the fight to the ground more instead of stubbornly trying to kickbox with the energizer bunny. Almost like he was trying to prove a point.

 

[skysolo]

A lot of words to say that athletes can be arrogant sometimes. TS your post is reeked in a sense of entitlement that only can be found in sports fans.

 

[The Accuser]

Completely agree TS.

I'm a massive Werdum fan (he is my favorite fighter besides GSP) but he deserved this loss and while I feel sorry for his embarrassment he has nobody but himself to blame. He didn't show the mindset of a true champion.

All good fighters know their technique and are athletic. What sets true champions apart is not primarily their athleticism or that they are just better wrestlers or strikers but their mindset. True champions have the dedication to come fully prepared even when their next fight looks easy, even when they feel drained and unmotivated, even when they believe they are the best in the world etc. They have a mindset that makes them stick to a gameplan even when they are running away with a fight because they know at their level of competition even a minor mistake can cost them dearly.

People underestimate how much mental strength it takes to stick with this mindset over a prolonged period of time, especially when you are having a lot of seemingly easy success. This is why GSP was such a great champion.

And this is why Cain was not - because he didn't take the fight seriously enough to prepare for the altitude (if that was even the reason for his loss)
And Werdum was not - because he charged forward in most stupid fashion although he clearly knows better
And Hendricks was not - because he decided to coast in the last round of a close title fight because he thought he might have already won 3 (!) rounds

They all displayed a lack of a champion's mindset.

 

[Mochan]

The past few years in the UFC have shown me that over-confidence and complacency are the biggest enemies of many top fighters.

....
I'm sure people can think of many other examples of this.

You're right, I can think of other examples. Like GSP vs. Matt Serra.


Come on dude. GSP, Jones, and yeah Mayweather -- the reason they don't get KTFO like the others (except GSP of course) is because they are fucking safe, no-risk point fighters.


You wrote such a long piece of TLDR when really they're just fucking point fighters.

 

[Mochan]

Sooo...there is Werdum, lighting up Arlovski using the same approach.

Aldo; same thing. Running in with combos and lighting people up, until Conor.

When it works out for them, we think they're brilliant. When it doesn't, we suddenly think we know better than them.

Believe me Sherbros, I felt the same way; Werdum looked like a fool doing that. But, he's done it successfully in the past, so maybe he's not as much of a fool as we think.

This. Let's not pretend that Werdum hasn't fought like this in the past. He has. Stipe was just the first guy to take advantage of it in such amazing fashion.

Stop discrediting Stipe (and for that matter, Conor) by saying he only did it because his opponent acted dumb. It's not easy landing a counter like that; his skills are what made it happen.


While I agree with the TS that the primary cause of Werdum's loss was hubris, the bum rush was not a symptom of that hubris. That's just part of his game. His hubris was in coming in fat, out-of-shape and looking to clown around rather than fight seriously.

 

[krelianx]

GSP was boring as hell the last 5 years. Wouldn't want to rewatch any of those fights and I still have no admiration for how defensive his offense was. He was like LeBron James but only shot free throws. Everyone GSP LnP others quickly finished.

The fights with Penn, Fitch, Serra 2, Condit, and Hendricks were the farthest thing from 'boring'. They were amazing fights.

Kosheck, Shields, Alves, Hardy and Diaz were boring fights. But the boring indictment is wildly overstated.

 

[Axe720]

Stipe hit Werdum with a very hard shot immediately before Werdum came in like a "drunken" man.

Personally, I feel as if Fabricio came in like that not because he believed his hype but rather because he wanted to go all in and hopefully end the fight.

I would compare it to inefficiently using energy in a wrestling match in hopes to end it with a pin.

You may be right about him getting clipped before rushing in. I think he was hoping Stipe would move straight back so he could clinch with him on the cage.