the "this guy with X months of training" Sherdog meme

[Fyreborn]

Take all the ones without wrestling then.

It is still almost a given one would turn out better than JDS did. Dude was a *waiter*.

He is clearly a freak, but NFL players are the ultimate freaks. 37 is also hardly 57.

 

[Fyreborn]

I'd pick JDS over any 37 year old NFL player.

Quoting this again so you get a notification. Your newer post doesn't quote properly for some reason.

 

[Claude]

Take all the ones without wrestling then.

It is still almost a given one would turn out better than JDS did. Dude was a *waiter*.

Waiter at what age?

He is clearly a freak, but NFL players are the ultimate freaks. 37 is also hardly 57.

Freaks at what? running? tackling? catching an egg?

 

[screaminleeman]

This is a blanket reply to many Sherdogisms of the same type:

- Floyd in MMA
- MMA fighter vs Floyd in boxing
- Athlete XYZ in MMA
- Famous person in MMA

It doesn't matter. This stuff is pretty simple. A guy that does something professionally for his life >>> a guy that picks it up just now and is an amateur.

That applies to everything. That applied to CM Punk (who had the best trainers but was a nobody in terms of striking/grappling). That applies to "A level athletes" who are nobodies in terms of striking and grappling. That applies to Floyd who is a nobody in grappling (but who could, like CM punk, wastefully try to invest some time and cash to catch up to pros who have invested their life). That applies to an MMA fighter vs Floyd in boxing. It doesn't matter who they have training them. That gap isn't getting closed despite you being famous for something that has fuck all to do with the topic at hand.

Anyone that has trained with a pro in anything (striking or grappling) knows it doesn't matter. No BS variable (athleticism or money or fame) will make someone with 0 training beat a specialist/pro with a lifetime of training. This applies to striking, grappling, cookie baking, gun shooting, whatever.

This is the single most confusing thing to me about Sherdog. "XYZ with this many months of training could do blahblah" based on a BS unrelated variable. It could be years... that sentence is never true about ANYTHING in life when they are competing against a specialist in the top 0.0001% of the population at something who has done it their whole life.

/random rant from a normal person that has trained with a pro

I 100% agree with this. That said many of us do not have this "exact" thought process.

Many of us that question how large Athletes in the mainstream sport would have performed as MMA fighters had they focused on training at the core disciplines as a youngster. I LMAO at most of the NBA in UFC arguments, but I can even see some of their point of views. It is damn difficult to say how competitive that a Lebron James might be today in the UFC if he had focused on Wrestling, Boxing and some martial art involving kicking as a single digit year old kid and stayed with it until adult. It is likely that an athlete of that caliber would have been seriously competitive if he had 20 years of training in these areas!

I say the same thing about NFL players. Stephen Neil beat Brock Lesnar for the NCAA title in 1999. With zero NCAA football experience, he transitioned from an athlete with a proven successful discipline into MMA (Wrestling) and made a career in the NFL.

FFS the Stephen Neil that beat Brock Lesnar would have clearly had a skillset that would allow him some success in the UFC! Same with the GOAT UFC fighter who is BY FAR the least athletic in the family.

I think that you are a nut if Arthur would not run his 10,000 - 0 record against his little brother Jon to 10,001 - 0 if they fought in the Octagon you are CRAZY.

That permanent scar on Jon's forehead is not from anything the ANY top UFC fighter was capable of doing. The was Big Brother Arthur that busted Jon's skull acting up. Jon isn't going to 'suggest" he could beat his NFL brother that was also a decorated Wrestler.

The Youngest "Jones" brother is the most athletic of the three. Without the Wrestling background Chandler doesn't stand a snowflakes chance in hell of beating any of his less athletic brothers.

I will go on record saying that the current NFL players had they focused their athletic efforts on the core disciplines that have had success in MMA, than there would not be a single LHW or HW currently on the UFC roster that would be able to reach the UFC (or even Bellator).

Not an x month argument. X months does NOT make any athlete competitive with current UFC fighters. A life long training in the core disciplines of these athletes makes perfect sense to compare to the current LHW & HW UFC fighters.

 

[John Wick]

Jon Jones was one of the best fighters in the world within a few months training.

Imagine what a true A level athlete would do.

And don't bring up washed up football playas who start MMA careers in their 30's, after dozens of concussions and injuries.

Most submissions in LHW history as well and he's a white belt in BJJ.

 

[grimballer]

youre just in denial ts.

a level athletes would dominate ufc with couple of months (some weeks training)

the gap in athleticism will erase any gap in technical skills.

we have already seen how jones with far less striking n grappling experience can dominated a much more experienced opponents.

hes subbing black belts, outwrestling olympian wrestlers n outstriking elite (mma) stikers.

keep in mind that jones is nowhere near an athlete like his 2 brothers who are in nfl. if he was he would be in nfl as well.

the only reason he took up wrestling n then later mma is cause he couldnt cut it in football

your average nba/nfl athlete would have such a big athletic advantage over your average ufc fighter any skill advantage that ufc fighter has would be nullified.

also while your average ufc fighter has to use techniques to get in/out of tuff spots, average nba/nfl athlete will just use superior atheltcism.

nba/nfl athletes will also be much better at learning these new athletic feats.

something that takes years to master for your average joe (ufc fighter), it will take months (some weeks) for your average nba/nfl athlete.

their hand/eye coordination, spacial awareness, reactions, reflexes... are much better than your average ufc fighter.

 

[Fyreborn]

Waiter at what age?



Freaks at what? running? tackling? catching an egg?

Waiter at 19. 19 is better to start than 30, but you're wrong if you think 30 is just too old for NFL players. Totally wrong.

Freak athletes. Have you *ever* followed a sport other than MMA? Athletic abilities translate well. Far from perfectly - which is why I say most would fail to be elite. But they translate well enough to ensure some would be elite. It's a virtual lock.

 

[MMAViewer]

Wrestling background > being able to bounce a ball well

So NBA players aren't a level athletes they can just bounce balls well?
Aldo can bounce balls with his feet better than Shaquille O'Neal or Dennis Rodman ever dreamed of.
Your argument sounds silly.

 

[Fyreborn]

I 100% agree with this. That said many of us do not have this "exact" thought process.

Many of us that question how large Athletes in the mainstream sport would have performed as MMA fighters had they focused on training at the core disciplines as a youngster. I LMAO at most of the NBA in UFC arguments, but I can even see some of their point of views. It is damn difficult to say how competitive that a Lebron James might be today in the UFC if he had focused on Wrestling, Boxing and some martial art involving kicking as a single digit year old kid and stayed with it until adult. It is likely that an athlete of that caliber would have been seriously competitive if he had 20 years of training in these areas!

I say the same thing about NFL players. Stephen Neil beat Brock Lesnar for the NCAA title in 1999. With zero NCAA football experience, he transitioned from an athlete with a proven successful discipline into MMA (Wrestling) and made a career in the NFL.

FFS the Stephen Neil that beat Brock Lesnar would have clearly had a skillset that would allow him some success in the UFC! Same with the GOAT UFC fighter who is BY FAR the least athletic in the family.

I think that you are a nut if Arthur would not run his 10,000 - 0 record against his little brother Jon to 10,001 - 0 if they fought in the Octagon you are CRAZY.

That permanent scar on Jon's forehead is not from anything the ANY top UFC fighter was capable of doing. The was Big Brother Arthur that busted Jon's skull acting up. Jon isn't going to 'suggest" he could beat his NFL brother that was also a decorated Wrestler.

The Youngest "Jones" brother is the most athletic of the three. Without the Wrestling background Chandler doesn't stand a snowflakes chance in hell of beating any of his less athletic brothers.

I will go on record saying that the current NFL players had they focused their athletic efforts on the core disciplines that have had success in MMA, than there would not be a single LHW or HW currently on the UFC roster that would be able to reach the UFC (or even Bellator).

Not an x month argument. X months does NOT make any athlete competitive with current UFC fighters. A life long training in the core disciplines of these athletes makes perfect sense to compare to the current LHW & HW UFC fighters.

Not a single UFC or Bellator fighter would be there? You're going ridiculously too far.

youre just in denial ts.

a level athletes would dominate ufc with couple of months (some weeks training)

the gap in athleticism will erase any gap in technical skills.

we have already seen how jones with far less striking n grappling experience can dominated a much more experienced opponents.

hes subbing black belts, outwrestling olympian wrestlers n outstriking elite (mma) stikers.

keep in mind that jones is nowhere near an athlete like his 2 brothers who are in nfl. if he was he would be in nfl as well.

the only reason he took up wrestling n then later mma is cause he couldnt cut it in football

your average nba/nfl athlete would have such a big athletic advantage over your average ufc fighter any skill advantage that ufc fighter has would be nullified.

also while your average ufc fighter has to use techniques to get in/out of tuff spots, average nba/nfl athlete will just use superior atheltcism.

nba/nfl athletes will also be much better at learning these new athletic feats.

something that takes years to master for your average joe (ufc fighter), it will take months (some weeks) for your average nba/nfl athlete.

their hand/eye coordination, spacial awareness, reactions, reflexes... are much better than your average ufc fighter.

Weeks? LOL.

It's posts like these that frustrate people.

 

[fatlipjesus]

This is usually true in most sports but MMA is niche and doesnt attract the top athletes. So it is true, look at brock he became UFC HW champ( best fighter in the world) and he cant even take a punch.

Brock was never the best fighter in the world.

Everyone with a brain knew he would get wrecked as soon as he fought a top HW

 

[grimballer]

Brock was never the best fighter in the world.

Everyone with a brain knew he would get wrecked as soon as he fought a top HW

wtf?!?

he beat mir, herring, couture n carwin.

if fedor had those names on his list you would proclaim him undisputed goat.

 

[Dionysian]

Most submissions in LHW history as well and he's a white belt in BJJ.

Disingenuous at best to equate belt color in one school with grappling pedigree when someone is a lifelong grappler. Barnett was a white belt in BJJ too as of a few years ago... guess he's a grappling noob.

youre just in denial ts.

a level athletes would dominate ufc with couple of months (some weeks training)

the gap in athleticism will erase any gap in technical skills.

we have already seen how jones with far less striking n grappling experience can dominated a much more experienced opponents.

hes subbing black belts, outwrestling olympian wrestlers n outstriking elite (mma) stikers.

keep in mind that jones is nowhere near an athlete like his 2 brothers who are in nfl. if he was he would be in nfl as well.

the only reason he took up wrestling n then later mma is cause he couldnt cut it in football

your average nba/nfl athlete would have such a big athletic advantage over your average ufc fighter any skill advantage that ufc fighter has would be nullified.

also while your average ufc fighter has to use techniques to get in/out of tuff spots, average nba/nfl athlete will just use superior atheltcism.

nba/nfl athletes will also be much better at learning these new athletic feats.

something that takes years to master for your average joe (ufc fighter), it will take months (some weeks) for your average nba/nfl athlete.

their hand/eye coordination, spacial awareness, reactions, reflexes... are much better than your average ufc fighter.

Exactly what I'm talking about. I would bet my life savings you've never trained.

Hell even your definition of athleticism (basically "NBA/NFL players") is ridiculous and shows you're an American with no frame of reference on athletics. So Jon Jones, based on "athleticism" outwrestled Olympian DC. So NBA players (who you say are much better athletes than Jon) could all win gold wrestling in the next Olympics with a few weeks of training right? And NBA >>> Olympians in terms of athleticism right?

 

[John Wick]

Disingenuous at best to equate belt color in one school with grappling pedigree when someone is a lifelong grappler. Barnett was a white belt in BJJ too as of a few years ago... guess he's a grappling noob.

Exactly what I'm talking about. I would bet my life savings you've never trained.

Hell even your definition of athleticism (basically "NBA/NFL players") is ridiculous and shows you're an American with no frame of reference on athletics. So Jon Jones, based on "athleticism" outwrestled Olympian DC. So NBA players (who you say are much better athletes than Jon) could all win gold wrestling in the next Olympics with a few weeks of training right? And NBA >>> Olympians in terms of athleticism right?

Any A-level athlete with no grappling or BJJ background can submit/beat up "high level" guys in MMA if given 1-2 years to train. A-level athletes are animals.

 

[grimballer]

Disingenuous at best to equate belt color in one school with grappling pedigree when someone is a lifelong grappler. Barnett was a white belt in BJJ too as of a few years ago... guess he's a grappling noob.

Exactly what I'm talking about. I would bet my life savings you've never trained.

Hell even your definition of athleticism (basically "NBA/NFL players") is ridiculous and shows you're an American with no frame of reference on athletics. So Jon Jones, based on "athleticism" outwrestled Olympian DC. So NBA players (who you say are much better athletes than Jon) could all win gold wrestling in the next Olympics with a few weeks of training right? And NBA >>> Olympians in terms of athleticism right?

i thought we were talking about mma where you can punch n kick...

so what youre saying? would jones win olypmic gold if he quit mma n tried wrestling or sub with ease top bjjers in bjj competition the way he does it in mma?

the reason why the transition to mma is much easier is cause there is way less restriction on what you can/cant do.

thats where superior athleticism would come into play.

jones didnt have 1/10th of experience of guys he manhandled in ufc.

just look at this pic

you seriously think this guy

beats this guy

if you give the 2nd guy basic ufc training?

 

[fatlipjesus]

wtf?!?

he beat mir, herring, couture n carwin.

if fedor had those names on his list you would proclaim him undisputed goat.

Most people already do proclaim him the undisputed GOAT.

Beating Shane Carwin would not affect that opinion one way or the other. The guy was overrated as fuck simply because he had bigger hands than Brock lol

 

[kingskot]

This is a blanket reply to many Sherdogisms of the same type:

- Floyd in MMA
- MMA fighter vs Floyd in boxing
- Athlete XYZ in MMA
- Famous person in MMA

It doesn't matter. This stuff is pretty simple. A guy that does something professionally for his life >>> a guy that picks it up just now and is an amateur.

That applies to everything. That applied to CM Punk (who had the best trainers but was a nobody in terms of striking/grappling). That applies to "A level athletes" who are nobodies in terms of striking and grappling. That applies to Floyd who is a nobody in grappling (but who could, like CM punk, wastefully try to invest some time and cash to catch up to pros who have invested their life). That applies to an MMA fighter vs Floyd in boxing. It doesn't matter who they have training them. That gap isn't getting closed despite you being famous for something that has fuck all to do with the topic at hand.

Anyone that has trained with a pro in anything (striking or grappling) knows it doesn't matter. No BS variable (athleticism or money or fame) will make someone with 0 training beat a specialist/pro with a lifetime of training. This applies to striking, grappling, cookie baking, gun shooting, whatever.

This is the single most confusing thing to me about Sherdog. "XYZ with this many months of training could do blahblah" based on a BS unrelated variable. It could be years... that sentence is never true about ANYTHING in life when they are competing against a specialist in the top 0.0001% of the population at something who has done it their whole life.

/random rant from a normal person that has trained with a pro

I agree, TS. Does being a high-level athlete mean you're more likely to be a "natural", at MMA? Sure. Does it guarantee it? Not at all, and in fact there are counter examples. Genetics is a factor too; just because you're built for football doesn't mean you're built for basketball/hockey/swimming/boxing/MMA/etc. I think that having some experience training with reasonably high-level pros does really help to drive this point home, but of course as soon as you say that on Sheredog somebody with no experience will just deride you.

 

[fatlipjesus]

Another thread where idiots think basketball players could become HW champs with a few weeks training lol


Why not soccer players?
Why not tennis players?

They are A-level athletes.

Do you think Federer would be champ with "just a few months" training?
What about Nadal?

I'm sure Lionel Messi would fuck shit up in the UFC. After all, he's been kicking for years and years... which makes him far more qualified than anybody in the NBA.

 

[Miiiiiiighty]

It's pretty simple:

If NFL "A level athlete" started training MMA from young age, then he wouldn't be an NFL "A level athlete" because he would be sparring and rolling on the mat instead of doing drills.
If NFL "A level athlete" switched sports and joined MMA he would get destroyed.

Thus the A level athlete argument is completely silly.

Brock almost posted the same combine results as JJ Watts ( and is approx of similar size ) and that was a few week after a motorcycle accident ( not even 100% ) , so he clearly is "A Level " as far as athlecism goes
Also wrestled all his life ..
Didn't prevent him to get his ass handed to him once he fought legit opposition.
So with him should the " A level " myth go .

 

[Fyreborn]

i thought we were talking about mma where you can punch n kick...

so what youre saying? would jones win olypmic gold if he quit mma n tried wrestling or sub with ease top bjjers in bjj competition the way he does it in mma?

the reason why the transition to mma is much easier is cause there is way less restriction on what you can/cant do.

thats where superior athleticism would come into play.

jones didnt have 1/10th of experience of guys he manhandled in ufc.

just look at this pic

you seriously think this guy

beats this guy

if you give the 2nd guy basic ufc training?

Cain had a lifetime of grappling. Howard isn't beating him with "basic" training.

The TS is wrong, but he's closer to the truth than you are. Only a minority of NBA/NFL players would become elite - and you can't predict who it would be.

 

[Reaperman]

GSP is the best MMA wrestler ever and did not do it for a career prior to UFC - that being said, I think you are right in that he probably would not win a high level wrestling match on it's own.....