the "this guy with X months of training" Sherdog meme

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Dionysian, Dec 15, 2016.

  1. Dionysian

    Dionysian Silver Belt

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    This is a blanket reply to many Sherdogisms of the same type:

    - Floyd in MMA
    - MMA fighter vs Floyd in boxing
    - Athlete XYZ in MMA
    - Famous person in MMA

    It doesn't matter. This stuff is pretty simple. A guy that does something professionally for his life >>> a guy that picks it up just now and is an amateur.

    That applies to everything. That applied to CM Punk (who had the best trainers but was a nobody in terms of striking/grappling). That applies to "A level athletes" who are nobodies in terms of striking and grappling. That applies to Floyd who is a nobody in grappling (but who could, like CM punk, wastefully try to invest some time and cash to catch up to pros who have invested their life). That applies to an MMA fighter vs Floyd in boxing. It doesn't matter who they have training them. That gap isn't getting closed despite you being famous for something that has fuck all to do with the topic at hand.

    Anyone that has trained with a pro in anything (striking or grappling) knows it doesn't matter. No BS variable (athleticism or money or fame) will make someone with 0 training beat a specialist/pro with a lifetime of training. This applies to striking, grappling, cookie baking, gun shooting, whatever.

    This is the single most confusing thing to me about Sherdog. "XYZ with this many months of training could do blahblah" based on a BS unrelated variable. It could be years... that sentence is never true about ANYTHING in life when they are competing against a specialist in the top 0.0001% of the population at something who has done it their whole life.

    /random rant from a normal person that has trained with a pro
     
  2. ALAN PARTRIDGE

    ALAN PARTRIDGE NO LONGER REGISTERED

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    Oh man :( and you tried so hard with this thread :( I feel for you TS
     
  3. MCS

    MCS Gold Belt

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    We saw it already with Marcus Jones. Slow & chinny, yet had the right attributes to play in the NFL for 7 years.

    It's more appliable to single-discipline masters like top kickboxers like Cro Cop & Hunt who already had an advantage in one area. But their style also mattered. Stefan Leko had a poor transition.
     
  4. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Guest

    Because Brock didn't become UFC champ in his 4th fight and beat a bunch of people with years more striking experience than he had......
     
  5. tenniswhiz

    tenniswhiz Steel Belt

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    Jon Jones was one of the best fighters in the world within a few months training.

    Imagine what a true A level athlete would do.

    And don't bring up washed up football playas who start MMA careers in their 30's, after dozens of concussions and injuries.
     
  6. myjohnson9

    myjohnson9 GOAT

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    Those are called fantasy matchups. Fantasy matchup threads = wasteland.
    Threads bitching about people bitching about fantasy matchups also = wasteland
     
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  7. thehighking

    thehighking Black Belt

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    In most cases this is correct but everyone is different and sometimes a person is naturally made for a certain sport. Didn't Glover Teixeira start MMA very late? Still managed to become one of the best MMA fighters in the world
     
  8. dc007

    dc007 mr. white belt

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    He wrestled his whole life. It's not the same thing.
     
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  9. Claude

    Claude Red Belt

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    Brock was given a very easy path to the title and he fought a 220 lbs ancient man.

    He also had size and a wrestling base.
     
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  10. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Guest

    True. That's different than just being an athlete with an unrelated base, plus Brock did become a whirling dervish and wilt up when he got hit.

    Reservoir Dogs is a great film.
     
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  11. Claude

    Claude Red Belt

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    It's pretty simple:

    If NFL "A level athlete" started training MMA from young age, then he wouldn't be an NFL "A level athlete" because he would be sparring and rolling on the mat instead of doing drills.
    If NFL "A level athlete" switched sports and joined MMA he would get destroyed.

    Thus the A level athlete argument is completely silly.
     
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  12. Fyreborn

    Fyreborn Brown Belt

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    I don't agree with TS but Brock isn't a bad example as others said, since he grappled since childhood.

    Same with Jon Jones.

    JDS is a better example. He was an unathletic waiter until like 19 and was champ at 27.

    But, the odds of a random athlete pulling that off are low. It takes someone special - and you *can't* predict who that would be. Lebron might be champ, but probably would never sniff the belt.

    Floyd and Mike Tyson have a combat base so it's much easier for them.
     
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  13. Fyreborn

    Fyreborn Brown Belt

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    No. There would definitely be exceptions who are successful after training a few years.

    But you can't predict who they'd be. Most would get destroyed - not all.
     
  14. Dionysian

    Dionysian Silver Belt

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    Brock wrestled his entire life
    Jon Jones wrestled his entire life.
    Hi fake mod. Do you know what 'fantasy matchups' means and/or did you read this thread? Hint: Fantasy matchups isn't people talking about how easy it is (or not) for people to transition to new skills
     
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  15. Claude

    Claude Red Belt

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    No. That's just silly.
     
  16. Fyreborn

    Fyreborn Brown Belt

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    Oh? What about JDS, who wasn't by even an athlete of any kind, as I stated?

    In boxing there was Sergio Martinez who started at 20 and became a top P4P boxer.
     
  17. lesnarsneedle

    lesnarsneedle Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Too bad everything he said is 100% true
     
  18. soulsstealer

    soulsstealer Silver Belt

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    This is usually true in most sports but MMA is niche and doesnt attract the top athletes. So it is true, look at brock he became UFC HW champ( best fighter in the world) and he cant even take a punch.
     
  19. Dionysian

    Dionysian Silver Belt

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    Best actual counter example in the thread so far but that is nearly a decade, not months or a year. You can become elite in a decade with dedication/athleticism in the very rare example of starting from 0. A CM Punk or LeBron James in MMA or Floyd or whoever in MMA with one year training regardless of money.... nah. It is all about respecting the skill. Same reason why it is idiotic to say an MMA guy beats Floyd in boxing. He is beyond elite and doing it his whole life... that gap isn't being bridged. No money or trash talk or hype changes that.

    Just boils down to the gap of skill/training. Most untrained people just don't appreciate that gap in skill because they don't know how much it takes to build (which is why Sherdog has these comments... guys that never trained to be frank). It simply can't be bridged in a short time. You can be physically fit and sprawl day and night as a joe schmo and have some Olympian you paid 100K telling you "ok now sprawl!"... that life-long grappler is taking you down if you're just starting. If you can jump high enough to dunk a basketball... yeah that isn't changing it either.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
  20. chubbman

    chubbman Yellow Card

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    Wrestling background > being able to bounce a ball well
     
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