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the thing about unorthodox tech/fighters

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by devante, Sep 14, 2010.

  1. devante

    devante Silver Belt

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    i hear people discuss fighters or training partners; alot of guys will say a guy is unorthodox, an often i find this to be said of guys who don't come from b/g similar to the guys they are facing or training w/; an what i mean by this is nowadays mt boxing kickboxing are the "HOT" arts, so when someone who fines a different line of delivery of a tech or someone has a diff stance, diff approach or manner of attack, counter, defense.

    so its not so much that someone is unorthodox, so much as your exposure to various styles or philosophies might be a bit limited; as you have only seen certain arts regularly or at all, which means that anything outside of that is gonna seem unorthodox to you or if someone does the holy trinity of arts (kickboxing-boxing-mt) but has a tae kwon do- vovinam-shotokan-savate-isshin ryu-wing chun-mantis style-etc b/g. Then they will seem unorthodox, when in all actuality they are just pulling effective aspects from the other arts they initially trained in; as some people do value all the the arts they trained or value what they learned sparring different arts(me) and seek to intergrate those skills w/in the more "effective" arts.

    i was working clinch sparring a few weeks ago, im currently learning or in the process of learning mt and no im not awesome or an expert; but the guy i was doing it w/ or who was teaching me went from straight up mt clinching, to throwing in some wing chun entries/traps and so on to work into the clinch and then went back to the mt. Now i noticed this and asked him if he was wing chunning me, to which he acknowledged; but someone who a)doesn't respect the art, b)recognize elements of the art or c)hasn't trained it would just think he is unorthodox. When in fact he is just implying actual tech from a diff art w/the context of action using another art, in this case muay thai.

    very few people are unorthodox, most people just have a style rooted in something that has been discarded or ignored, i.e. lyoto machida. A guy like keith jardine would probably be the best example of true unorthodox tech.

    secondly-

    when seeing someone using unorthodox tech you will see guys try to emulate it because of some of the flashiness and dynacism of what these guys do; it looks cool, looks diff and seems more eff and easier than the orthodox guys.

    The thing about being unorthodox is for you to be truly successful, nine times out of ten; you have to be very physically gifted; no matter what you do it can be figured out and if your average or below avg in important areas you will be exposed. Diaz bros w/a unique or unorthodox type of boxing wouldn't be as effective IF THEY COULDN'T take the shots they take; everyone hits them, some people drop them. But noone has stopped them backed them up or knocked them out; alot of their style is effective cus noone else does it so its hard to really get sparring for in mma, but more importantly these two guys don't get tired and don't get dissuaded by abuse. If you don't have those two qualities and try to do what they do u will fade or get stopped; look at the pace they keep, how many guys can do that and look at who has hit them (noons-davis-maynard-guilliard-zaromskis-lawler-smith), all guys who ICE people and they hit them w/clean POWERSHOTS and nothing.

    gomi has an unorthodox way of striking; but he has a chin and has the power, so that any shot he lands can turn the fight around and the majority of the shots you learn will score, ding him up a little. But they won't dissuade or stop him.

    then you have jardine, a guy w/okay power-suspect chin-avg (at best speed)-avg explosiveness-handspeed-mobility and agility. Well the openings that don't cost nick and nate, COST keith cus he lacks the chin to make up for the def deficiences; and on the offensive side, the lack of power takes away from what he can land cus of the lack of fight ending or turning impact. As well as him lacking the speed to consistently land w/out being countered, i.e. having the speed or explosion to cover the tech holes in his game and what i mean by this his hand placement, footowork, bring his hands back and setup.

    t
    3rd
    the most effective unorthodox guys have a good concept of fundamental striking/fighting; they use it to support their skills or they use it to be eff against the orthodox guys because they know when and how to attack them because they have a very good comprehensive understanding of the philosophy-theory and application of text book tech. Which means they might not be as wild or might know the correct spots to apply those tech, examples of this would be chuck liddel-roy jones jr-jon jones- in grappling (sakuraba).

    thoughts/opinions
     
  2. lilevil93

    lilevil93 Orange Belt

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    too long. need cliffs
     
  3. surfer dude

    surfer dude Blue Belt

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    What you need, is Ritalin. :icon_idea

    That sentence confused me a bit; did you intend to say employing instead of implying?

    That is an interesting line of thought. Maybe the unorthodox style of fighting is the direct result of the physicals gifts? I.E. if not for the talent level, they would not fight that way.
     
  4. devante

    devante Silver Belt

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    yeah i did

    an i tend to agree w/the last thing you said, as i feel most people do what fits their style, physical strengths/weaknesses; brawler-tech-swarmer-defensive-counter-swarmer-puncher and so on. I think the same thing is true to these unorthodox guys, most any approach takes a particular physical or mental skillset and temperament; but in the case of being truly unorthodox it takes a combination of things or a high level of certain things to use it effectively. Which is why only roy jones can do what he does, chuck liddel can do what he does and so on; in spots any one of use can do what they do, but w/out the physical abilty to back it up more often then not it will get us destroyed. Especially once an opp has gotten used to what you do or just plain figured you out.
     
  5. jtmb

    jtmb Blue Belt

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    I like your posts, they always spark some discussion on this sub-forum. In this case I think you hit the nail on the head in regards to being physically gifted to truly pull off "unorthodox striking". Guys that can pull these styles off usually have some ridiculous physical attribute that allows them to get away with techniques that would otherwise leave their trainers in fits. Roy Jones as an example fits nicely, as we can now see what has happened once these physical attributes have diminished.

    I was just commenting to a friend of mine that it seems a lot of fighters tend to exaggerate their "unorthodox" style to throw their opponent off. The first case that comes to mind was King Mo vs. Feijao. Mo was holding his lead hand way low in the almost cliche lazy boxing stance that a lot of lightning quick boxers employ. He also was attempting to use lead hooks and a variety of other ill-advised punches that are pretty much reserved for only the most gifted strikers. Clearly this resulted in Mo getting KTFO.

    IMO most strikers who use an unorthodox style with success are also extremely technically skilled, and use unorthodox styles to bait their opponents with looks they aren't familiar with rather than as a complete style in and of itself. There is a reason these styles are unorthodox, because if all things are equal "orthodox" technique beats "unorthodox". Then again, I've always been biased to the true technicians of the sports world.
     

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