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The Takedown Class. Help?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by An end for, Aug 24, 2010.

  1. An end for

    An end for Purple Belt

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    Hello, everyone.

    I haven't been training properly during the last couple of months due to injury, and only managed to do a proper return to BJJ class recently. My teacher was thinking about setting up a takedown class for a while, and recently, he managed to set it up and it is a success.

    I first managed to attend part of the class yesterday. There were no techniques being taught for the day, since they were taught in the last class or something. Then, we went for something similar to what we call the raspa-passa-finaliza, which is like a roll, but you change partners as soon as someone gets swept, passed, or submitted, but this time, it was takedowns only. I'd go and say it looked a lot like judo, but I don't want to sound like an ass and my judo experience consists of attending a free class as a kid, ripping my pants and never going there again.

    I got absolutely tooled by everyone on the class, didn't manage to take anyone down or do any proper throw, other than some sort of sacrifice throw, which I found out that isn't allowed on the class.

    I'm terrible at takedowns, tend to pull guard most of the time, and the most I end up doing when it comes to throwing are sacrifice throws, which usually end up sacrificing my dignity, and the eventual hiptoss. My shooting is non-existent. One thing that hinders me a lot is that I'm often afraid to shoot or try anything that isn't completely lazy. I've cracked my tailbone in the past, and that makes me scared of getting tossed like a bag of potatoes. Now that I can't go around pulling guard like a jackass, I just gotta step things up and stop being lazy.

    So, the question is: what do I do? Does anyone have any tips to improve this part of my game? What should I aim for? Which kind of throws and takedowns are more suited to each body type? Whatever tips and advice you can give me are going to be very appreciated.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. fourfif**

    fourfif** Banned Banned

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  3. fourfif**

    fourfif** Banned Banned

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  4. fourfif**

    fourfif** Banned Banned

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    two on one puts you in a superior position both offensively and defensively. there's alot you can do from there, and not much your opponent can do. watch part two of the first video as well. good luck!
     
  5. YeahBee

    YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

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    you shouldn't be doing stand up if you don't know how to fall and is afraid of it.
    it is like rolling and not knowing how to tap
     
  6. leftovercrack

    leftovercrack Yellow Belt

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    learn breakfalls and rolls, then be confident your not gonna get hurt when your thrown and learn some throws and takedowns and fearlessly go for them regardless of consequence every time you drill/spar. That is what your practice time is for.
     
  7. rarmonio8920

    rarmonio8920 Purple Belt

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    I really like this post. Great analogy.
     
  8. fourfif**

    fourfif** Banned Banned

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    well, here's why I advocate the two on one for beginners (and everyone else).


    there is NO SAFER position from standing than having a two on one. maybe someone else here has, but I've been around the block and have never seen anyone get shot on while having a two on one, let alone thrown. I mean.... how?? once you have it, if you can get it, you have MANY OPTIONS.... you're opponent.... not so much.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2010
  9. knoxpk

    knoxpk Black Belt

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    Agree and agree. I think I Once saw the holder of a 2 on 1 get caught with a fireman's...I think! For the record, I agree the 2 on 1 is the mount of stand-up...99.9999% of the time a person held in a 2 on 1 has to break free in order to even try anything.
     
  10. Breadcutter

    Breadcutter Yellow Belt

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    I would practice as much as possible. It's just like jiu jitsu; lots of mat time, good instruction, and going live a lot.

    I would personally make sure that you learn and practice proper stance, posture, defense, and grip fighting FIRST. Then onto one or two simple takedowns.
     
  11. Doctor Venture

    Doctor Venture Black Belt

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    Focus on gripping and moving mostly while you learn breakfalls. You need to learn how to grip and move before you will ever hit a throw on anyone decent anyways, and if you dont fall right you wont be going to takedown classes for too long.
     
  12. YeahBee

    YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

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    those are all things that you develop WHILE doing takedowns

    I am not a hardcore judo comp guy by any means but I have trained with peeps on a pretty high level, never saw excerises to practise gripfighting in itself

    you should have a couple of throws you are comfortable going for, you learn that by repetition, first static then in movement, then you start trying to apply them live in sparring

    there is no point in learning defense first IMO, heck some purists even say you shouldn't defend as you should be on the offense from the get go, you shouldn't defend you should counter IMO

    , then what happens when you get too relative n00bs together? it will look like two people with the same side magnet stuck to their crotch nad nothing happens

    defense, posture, stance and grip fighting comes with experience
     
  13. YeahBee

    YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

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    grip fighting is important but some people place a much too high emphasis on it IMO

    they will only try to throw if they got their special grip instead of working from what they got

    it is not about getting throws straight away chain them together, I have had way more succcess when I go this route
     
  14. An end for

    An end for Purple Belt

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    Hello, everyone.

    Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely check out the two on one. Couldn't make good use of it today, as we only rolled starting from the knees, but I loved the material and will do my best to learn it.

    As for the idea of moving and believing in the offense, maybe this was one of the things I was doing very wrong... I felt like I was too slow and too cautious and too timid. Maybe it's a psychological thing... also probably conditioning. Gotta work on it!

    I personally don't have trouble with breaking falls, but I'll try to put more emphasis on it, so I can shake the fear away and get more comfortable with actually putting an effort. Grip fighting, on the other hand, is not my best spot. My grips need lots of work. My teacher recently installed a rope in the gym, and I have set it as my goal to climb it before the end of the year.

    I'd like to ask something else too. Are there any specific throws you can recommend me to take a look at? What I currently do are mostly sacrifice throws, and occasionally some kind of hip toss. I can't really name the toss, but the sacrifices look a lot like these throws here:

    Hikikomi Gaeshi -- Pulling-in Reversal
    Tawara Gaeshi -- Rice Bale Reversal

    As for body type, I'm fat but not too huge, and slightly taller than most people in my class.

    Once again, thanks to everyone.
     
  15. curb1850

    curb1850 Green Belt

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    agreed...
     
  16. Tony Manifold

    Tony Manifold Brown Belt

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    This is a great point. If you ask someone to stand in what they think is great posture, they will probably stand something like this.

    http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/1157/535173.jpg

    That is a volleyball specific stance because that was the picture I found. Hips square, feet shoulder width apart, head, knees and feet in alignment. while their are certain difference for different sports. this basic Athletic stance is common to any sport which requires movement. From football:
    [​IMG]
    To basball:
    [​IMG]
    To basketball:
    [​IMG]

    However, when people wrestle or do judo they often end up with their hips way back, their head way infront of their knees and their weight on their heels instead of centered. This is because of the defensive mindset. Then when they try to do something offensive, they fail because they are in such a bad position. This makes them more defensive because they think they are going to fail when they attack and it continues on. Get in a nice, balance, yet slightly aggressive posture and learn to defend from their when you need to. Your attacks will be stronger and you will be able to setup throws better.
     
  17. RDCC**

    RDCC** White Belt

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  18. YeahBee

    YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

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    well you did say that pulling guard was frowned upon in takedown class so I wouldn't recommend going for
    Sumi Gaeshi
    [​IMG]

    Tomoe Nage
    [​IMG]

    they are good thou because if you bail on it you do have a guardpull easily avaible

    My recommendation is
    3 footsweeps that is the core of judo atleast, works fine in Nogi aswell from a over/under or wrist and neck

    Deashi Barai
    [​IMG]

    Ouchi Gari
    [​IMG]

    Osoto Gari
    [​IMG]

    think of these three as the jab of footsweeps, some guy asked me about judo rules during the olympics, he didn't get it, no punches but legkicks were allowed LoL:icon_chee

    they will get people moving, even if they are defended you set up one of the other or a hip toss or an opening for a sacrifice throw, you get the picture, even in BJJ who is more based around double or single legs they work great, you stuff, clinch up and go for it
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2010
  19. RDCC**

    RDCC** White Belt

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    Practice Harai Goshi as often as possible with the Russian "Meathook" grip. I use it all the time, even in competition and catch people.

    Best throws/sweeps for BJJ guys (in order of importance): Harai Goshi, O Soto, Uchimata, O Uchi, Ko Uchi
     
  20. RDCC**

    RDCC** White Belt

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    check out my Harai in this clip:
    YouTube - reddawncombatclub's Channel

    Its not a classical Harai, because I throw him to the side so it looks kind of like Tai Otoshi, but its Harai for a BJJ match since people crouch so low to avoid takedowns.
     

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