International The Space, Science, Technology thread: America back in space

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Upper pic shows moon landings since 1966 by US, USSR, and China. Left is earth-facing, right is far side.

I wonder why it took anyone that long to be interested enough to land a probe at the Rückseite of the moon.
 
I wonder why it took anyone that long to be interested enough to land a probe at the Rückseite of the moon.

Well the US and Russia lost interest in the moon back in the 1970s. Russia effectively ended its moon efforts soon after Apollo 11:

The complete L3 lunar expedition complex with the 7K-LOK and LK for the Moon flyby and landing was prepared for a fifth launch, using a modified N1 rocket in August 1974. If this mission and the next had been successful, it would have led to the decision to launch up to five Soviet crewed N1-L3 expeditions in 1976–1980. To gain technical and scientific interest in the program, the modified multi-launched N1F-L3M missions were planned to have significantly more time on the Moon's surface than Apollo.

However, N1-L3 (as well as N1F-L3M) program was canceled in May 1974, and Soviet crewed space efforts subsequently concentrated on the development of space stations and on several designs and ground preparatory processes for a Mars mission, which continues to the present day, but has unclear objectives.[6]


So now China has gone back, the Israeli startup from post#2 itt plans to do so, and India also has plans for this year.

National prestige is a strong driver for these efforts. I really hope China goes for Mars, because it would likely trigger other nations to ramp up their efforts.
 
Well, credit where it's due as China got it done. Hopefully they pull some nifty info with it. Granted I'm not sure how the far side of the moon would differ, but I guess were gonna find out!

Granted, their rover looks... uhhh.... flimsy? Considering that one of the solar panels seems to be tweaked they may wanna check on their designs a touch. That kinda mistake can kill a mission is a real hurry.
 
Well, credit where it's due as China got it done. Hopefully they pull some nifty info with it. Granted I'm not sure how the far side of the moon would differ, but I guess were gonna find out!

One option is putting a radio telescope there that would not suffer from interference from Earth. That's one of the things they are checking.
 
One option is putting a radio telescope there that would not suffer from interference from Earth. That's one of the things they are checking.

Okay, I can dig that. I am gonna go out on a limb and assume that would take some nutso technical prowess though, because IIRC those things are amazingly sensitive so a rough landing would be killer.
 
Why is China landing a rover on the far side of the moon? Do they know something we don't?


Autbits or some Transform shit. Maybe they are looking for Space Nazi Hitler litteraly.
 
Okay, I can dig that. I am gonna go out on a limb and assume that would take some nutso technical prowess though, because IIRC those things are amazingly sensitive so a rough landing would be killer.
I believe their main goal was just to have a "first time that" notch on their belt by getting a rover to the far side. There aren't too many such firsts left that don't involve manned missions but it seems it has always been the case that if you want to join the big boys club you have to be first at something.
 
I believe their main goal was just to have a "first time that" notch on their belt by getting a rover to the far side. There aren't too many such firsts left that don't involve manned missions but it seems it has always been the case that if you want to join the big boys club you have to be first at something.

Pretty sure they were the first to put people in space without actually killing people or animals. That counts I think? But yah, far side of the moon also works.
 
The New Horizons spacecraft fell silent yesterday (Jan. 4), but the communications pause is expected, and scientists on the mission will have plenty of data to keep them busy during the intermission, mission staff members said during a news conference held Jan. 3.

The data blackout will last for about five days, mission principal investigator Alan Stern of the Southwest Research Institute said during the event, which was held to publicize new discoveries about the Kuiper Belt object the probe just visited, called 2014 MU69 and nicknamed Ultima Thule. The spacecraft is due to begin transmitting again on Jan. 10.

https://www.space.com/42903-new-horizons-ultima-thule-flyby-data-intermission.html
 
Excellent article. Must read.


Power politics always drives space conquest. China’s coup is no different
Kenan_Malik,_L.png

Kenan Malik


Landing a spacecraft on the far side of the moon is a fine achievement – and propaganda win

Sun 6 Jan 2019 06.00 GMTLast modified on Sun 6 Jan 2019 08.57 GMT
1562.jpg

Nasa rejected it as too difficult and costly an undertaking. Last week, China declared “mission accomplished” after landing a spacecraft, Chang’e-4, on the far side of the moon.

It was a remarkable endeavour. As the far side of the moon never faces the Earth, mission control cannot communicate directly with the spacecraft, but only via an orbiting satellite. The terrain is more broken and cratered than the near side, so landing a craft is that much more difficult. Even Nasa was impressed: “a first for humanity and an impressive accomplishment!”, the administrator tweeted.

Yet mixed with admiration was trepidation. China, a latecomer to the space race, is now beginning to threaten the supremacy of America and Russia. Almost every report on Chang’e-4’s mission declared it a “propaganda coup” for China. That it certainly is and one that Beijing will fully exploit. But then Russia and America have long played their space exploration programmes for propaganda purposes.

“The Soviet Union has made this a test of the system,” President Kennedy told a meeting on Nasa funding in 1962. “So that’s why we’re doing it… Everything that we do ought to really be tied into getting on to the moon ahead of the Russians.”

The answer, the two men decided, was a manned moon landing. The following month, Kennedy demanded of Congress that it provided funds to enable “this nation [to] commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon”.

Eight years later, on 21 July 1969, Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin became the first humans to tread on the moon. Their journey may have been fuelled in part by cold war desperation, but it was also an extraordinary triumph of knowledge and will, an act of the technological sublime.

Once America was satisfied that the Soviet Union had been put in its place, space exploration became politically less important. Manned moon missions ended in 1972. Nasa was normalised into a regular government technology programme.As America downgraded its space ambitions, Chinese aspirations took flight. In 1992, the Chinese government approved the Shenzhou manned spaceflight programme. Eleven years later, Yang Liwei became the first Chinese astronaut in space.

America barred China from participating in the International Space Station (ISS). In 2011, China launched the first of two prototypes of its own space station. It plans to launch the core module of a permanent space station, Tianhe, by 2020. The ISS is due to be retired by 2028; China may then have the only functioning orbiting station. By the end of that decade, Beijing aims to be the dominant force in space exploration. There will be many more “propaganda coups”.

Fears about Chinese ambitions have been heightened by the changing context of the space race. In the 1960s, America was willing to throw whatever resources were necessary to achieve its cold war goals. Today, Nasa is unsure of its purpose and America less committed to funding it. During the cold war, America feared the Soviet Union, but was determined to thwart Moscow’s aims. Today, American apprehension stems from the worry that China’s emergence as the dominant global force cannot be checked, nor Beijing’s brutal despotism challenged. As liberal democracy frays in the west and authoritarian capitalism becomes entrenched in the east, self-doubt shapes US attitudes to China.

Space exploration has long been fuelled by a mixture of humanistic dreams, technological leaps and tawdry politics. The Chang’e-4 mission is no different. How the space race will play out over the next decade, and what role China will adopt in global politics, remains uncertain. In the meantime, let us celebrate our new perspective of the dark side of the moon.

• Kenan Malik is an Observer columnist.
 
Excellent article. Must read.


Power politics always drives space conquest. China’s coup is no different
Kenan_Malik,_L.png

Kenan Malik


Landing a spacecraft on the far side of the moon is a fine achievement – and propaganda win

Sun 6 Jan 2019 06.00 GMTLast modified on Sun 6 Jan 2019 08.57 GMT
1562.jpg

Nasa rejected it as too difficult and costly an undertaking. Last week, China declared “mission accomplished” after landing a spacecraft, Chang’e-4, on the far side of the moon.

It was a remarkable endeavour. As the far side of the moon never faces the Earth, mission control cannot communicate directly with the spacecraft, but only via an orbiting satellite. The terrain is more broken and cratered than the near side, so landing a craft is that much more difficult. Even Nasa was impressed: “a first for humanity and an impressive accomplishment!”, the administrator tweeted.

Yet mixed with admiration was trepidation. China, a latecomer to the space race, is now beginning to threaten the supremacy of America and Russia. Almost every report on Chang’e-4’s mission declared it a “propaganda coup” for China. That it certainly is and one that Beijing will fully exploit. But then Russia and America have long played their space exploration programmes for propaganda purposes.

“The Soviet Union has made this a test of the system,” President Kennedy told a meeting on Nasa funding in 1962. “So that’s why we’re doing it… Everything that we do ought to really be tied into getting on to the moon ahead of the Russians.”

The answer, the two men decided, was a manned moon landing. The following month, Kennedy demanded of Congress that it provided funds to enable “this nation [to] commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon”.

Eight years later, on 21 July 1969, Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin became the first humans to tread on the moon. Their journey may have been fuelled in part by cold war desperation, but it was also an extraordinary triumph of knowledge and will, an act of the technological sublime.

Once America was satisfied that the Soviet Union had been put in its place, space exploration became politically less important. Manned moon missions ended in 1972. Nasa was normalised into a regular government technology programme.As America downgraded its space ambitions, Chinese aspirations took flight. In 1992, the Chinese government approved the Shenzhou manned spaceflight programme. Eleven years later, Yang Liwei became the first Chinese astronaut in space.

America barred China from participating in the International Space Station (ISS). In 2011, China launched the first of two prototypes of its own space station. It plans to launch the core module of a permanent space station, Tianhe, by 2020. The ISS is due to be retired by 2028; China may then have the only functioning orbiting station. By the end of that decade, Beijing aims to be the dominant force in space exploration. There will be many more “propaganda coups”.

Fears about Chinese ambitions have been heightened by the changing context of the space race. In the 1960s, America was willing to throw whatever resources were necessary to achieve its cold war goals. Today, Nasa is unsure of its purpose and America less committed to funding it. During the cold war, America feared the Soviet Union, but was determined to thwart Moscow’s aims. Today, American apprehension stems from the worry that China’s emergence as the dominant global force cannot be checked, nor Beijing’s brutal despotism challenged. As liberal democracy frays in the west and authoritarian capitalism becomes entrenched in the east, self-doubt shapes US attitudes to China.

Space exploration has long been fuelled by a mixture of humanistic dreams, technological leaps and tawdry politics. The Chang’e-4 mission is no different. How the space race will play out over the next decade, and what role China will adopt in global politics, remains uncertain. In the meantime, let us celebrate our new perspective of the dark side of the moon.

• Kenan Malik is an Observer columnist.


Eh Trump will build a Death Star and will make Luke SkyWalker pay for it!
 
In space, the US sees a rival in China
6 Jan 2019

d30786c2e2c67caa6367e2928991a7c9d800c03e.jpg
AFP/File / STRA Chinese Long March 3B rocket lifting off on December 8, 2018, carrying a rover that landed on the dark side of the Moon
During the Cold War, US eyes were riveted on the Soviet Union's rockets and satellites. But in recent years, it has been China's space programs that have most worried US strategists.

China, whose space effort is run by the People's Liberation Army, today launches more rockets into space than any other country -- 39 last year, compared to 31 by the United States, 20 by Russia and eight by Europe.

On Thursday it landed a space rover on the dark side of the Moon -- a first by any country -- and plans to build an orbiting space station in the coming decade. In the decade after that, it hopes to put a Chinese "taikonaut" on the Moon to make the first moonwalk since 1972.

China now spends more on its civil and military space programs than do Russia and Japan. Although opaque, its 2017 budget was estimated at $8.4 billion by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.

That's far less than the $48 billion the United States spends on its military and civilian space programs, says analyst Phil Smith of consulting firm Bryce Space and Technology. But it is more than double Russia's civilian space budget, which has been slashed to $3 billion.

79226b963496d207de29e16a59ccbd94511eaf70.jpg
AFP/File / Laurent EMMANUEL
The mining of minerals or water on the Moon or on asteroids is still a long way off, but American start-ups are already working on it

Overcoming a lag of several decades, China's leaders have very methodically replicated the stages of space development achieved by other great nations: a first satellite in 1970, its first manned space mission in 2003, the first docking of a manned spacecraft to an orbiting module in 2012, and activation of the BeiDou satellite navigation system, China's answer to GPS.

"If they continue on this trajectory, they're going to quickly eclipse Russia in terms of their space technology capabilities," said Todd Harrison, an expert on military space programs at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.

- Lunar resources -

China currently poses no threat to the commercial satellite launch market, which remains dominated by companies including US-based SpaceX and Europe's Arianespace, and Russia.

Nor has China's progress in space exploration eclipsed that of the US.

560c4192d91e9f505af1563ca3e550c9a3bccbbe.jpg
China National Space Administration (CNSA) via CNS/AFP/File / China National Space Administration (CNSA) via CNS

China's Jade Rabbit-2 rover drove on the far side of the Moon on January 3, 2018, a mission no other space mission has ever accomplished
NASA's head congratulated China on its Chang'e-4 Moon landing but a 2011 US law bars space cooperation with Beijing, although Congress could lift that restriction.

The real rivalry is in two areas: in the short term, military uses of space; and long-term, the exploitation of resources in space.

The mining of minerals or water on the Moon or on asteroids, notably to produce fuel for rockets, is still a long way off, but American start-ups are already working on it.

Unlike the Cold War, the new conquest of space is unfolding largely in a legal vacuum.

In the 1960s and '70s, Washington and Moscow negotiated several treaties on space, principally to guarantee scientific cooperation and to ban weapons of mass destruction in space.

"The treaties are too vague to be really certain what the legal result is for something like space mining," said Frans von der Dunk, a professor of space law at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln.

- War in space -

Moreover, they have been overtaken by new military technologies: anti-satellite lasers, cyberattacks, electronic jamming, and land-based anti-satellite missiles -- like the one China tested in 2007.

Laws of war govern conflicts on Earth, but there is no equivalent for space. And unanswered questions abound.

4bc2a8685a9baef4df724a8beae54d120c61d0b7.jpg
AFP / Laurence CHU Chinese lander on the 'dark side of the Moon'

If one satellite collides with another in space, does that constitute an "attack"? What would be a proportional response? Civilian satellites should be protected from reprisals but what about satellites with dual civilian and military uses? How does a nation respond to a cyberattack of uncertain origin?

"It's very hard to distinguish between weapons and non weapons in space," said Jack Beard, a professor in the University of Nebraska's space law program.

"It's unfortunately hard to envision any major armed conflict on Earth not extending into space," he added. "The Chinese have been preparing for whatever eventuality may be in the future, and... they have been experimenting with systems to interfere with our communications, our transmissions from satellites to drones."

Harrison concurs: "The United States has not been keeping pace with the threats against our space systems," and that has left the US vulnerable.

Meanwhile, US dialogue with Beijing is virtually nil, in contrast with Washington's exchanges with Moscow during the Cold War.

"If there's a crisis in space involving China, it's not clear our military knows who to call," said Harrison.

But other observers take a more skeptical view of portraying China as an aggressive adversary of the United States.

Brian Weeden, of the Washington-based Secure World Foundation, said some proponents of the China-as-threat argument wield it as a way to get money for NASA out of a tight-fisted Congress.

They "think that will motivate the US to go off and do the stuff in space that they want to do," he said.

"They see the competition with China as a key to unlocking the political will and money to fund the projects they want to see."

https://www.afp.com/en/news/826/space-us-sees-rival-china-doc-1bz4i23
 
In space, the US sees a rival in China
6 Jan 2019

d30786c2e2c67caa6367e2928991a7c9d800c03e.jpg
AFP/File / STRA Chinese Long March 3B rocket lifting off on December 8, 2018, carrying a rover that landed on the dark side of the Moon
During the Cold War, US eyes were riveted on the Soviet Union's rockets and satellites. But in recent years, it has been China's space programs that have most worried US strategists.

China, whose space effort is run by the People's Liberation Army, today launches more rockets into space than any other country -- 39 last year, compared to 31 by the United States, 20 by Russia and eight by Europe.

On Thursday it landed a space rover on the dark side of the Moon -- a first by any country -- and plans to build an orbiting space station in the coming decade. In the decade after that, it hopes to put a Chinese "taikonaut" on the Moon to make the first moonwalk since 1972.

China now spends more on its civil and military space programs than do Russia and Japan. Although opaque, its 2017 budget was estimated at $8.4 billion by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.

That's far less than the $48 billion the United States spends on its military and civilian space programs, says analyst Phil Smith of consulting firm Bryce Space and Technology. But it is more than double Russia's civilian space budget, which has been slashed to $3 billion.

79226b963496d207de29e16a59ccbd94511eaf70.jpg
AFP/File / Laurent EMMANUEL
The mining of minerals or water on the Moon or on asteroids is still a long way off, but American start-ups are already working on it

Overcoming a lag of several decades, China's leaders have very methodically replicated the stages of space development achieved by other great nations: a first satellite in 1970, its first manned space mission in 2003, the first docking of a manned spacecraft to an orbiting module in 2012, and activation of the BeiDou satellite navigation system, China's answer to GPS.

"If they continue on this trajectory, they're going to quickly eclipse Russia in terms of their space technology capabilities," said Todd Harrison, an expert on military space programs at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.

- Lunar resources -

China currently poses no threat to the commercial satellite launch market, which remains dominated by companies including US-based SpaceX and Europe's Arianespace, and Russia.

Nor has China's progress in space exploration eclipsed that of the US.

560c4192d91e9f505af1563ca3e550c9a3bccbbe.jpg
China National Space Administration (CNSA) via CNS/AFP/File / China National Space Administration (CNSA) via CNS

China's Jade Rabbit-2 rover drove on the far side of the Moon on January 3, 2018, a mission no other space mission has ever accomplished
NASA's head congratulated China on its Chang'e-4 Moon landing but a 2011 US law bars space cooperation with Beijing, although Congress could lift that restriction.

The real rivalry is in two areas: in the short term, military uses of space; and long-term, the exploitation of resources in space.

The mining of minerals or water on the Moon or on asteroids, notably to produce fuel for rockets, is still a long way off, but American start-ups are already working on it.

Unlike the Cold War, the new conquest of space is unfolding largely in a legal vacuum.

In the 1960s and '70s, Washington and Moscow negotiated several treaties on space, principally to guarantee scientific cooperation and to ban weapons of mass destruction in space.

"The treaties are too vague to be really certain what the legal result is for something like space mining," said Frans von der Dunk, a professor of space law at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln.

- War in space -

Moreover, they have been overtaken by new military technologies: anti-satellite lasers, cyberattacks, electronic jamming, and land-based anti-satellite missiles -- like the one China tested in 2007.

Laws of war govern conflicts on Earth, but there is no equivalent for space. And unanswered questions abound.

4bc2a8685a9baef4df724a8beae54d120c61d0b7.jpg
AFP / Laurence CHU Chinese lander on the 'dark side of the Moon'

If one satellite collides with another in space, does that constitute an "attack"? What would be a proportional response? Civilian satellites should be protected from reprisals but what about satellites with dual civilian and military uses? How does a nation respond to a cyberattack of uncertain origin?

"It's very hard to distinguish between weapons and non weapons in space," said Jack Beard, a professor in the University of Nebraska's space law program.

"It's unfortunately hard to envision any major armed conflict on Earth not extending into space," he added. "The Chinese have been preparing for whatever eventuality may be in the future, and... they have been experimenting with systems to interfere with our communications, our transmissions from satellites to drones."

Harrison concurs: "The United States has not been keeping pace with the threats against our space systems," and that has left the US vulnerable.

Meanwhile, US dialogue with Beijing is virtually nil, in contrast with Washington's exchanges with Moscow during the Cold War.

"If there's a crisis in space involving China, it's not clear our military knows who to call," said Harrison.

But other observers take a more skeptical view of portraying China as an aggressive adversary of the United States.

Brian Weeden, of the Washington-based Secure World Foundation, said some proponents of the China-as-threat argument wield it as a way to get money for NASA out of a tight-fisted Congress.

They "think that will motivate the US to go off and do the stuff in space that they want to do," he said.

"They see the competition with China as a key to unlocking the political will and money to fund the projects they want to see."

https://www.afp.com/en/news/826/space-us-sees-rival-china-doc-1bz4i23


China is getting there.

Awesome post btw. I think @NoDak would like it too.
 
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