International The Space, Science, Technology thread: America back in space

[TheComebackKid]

Reply ban imo

That's the left's answer for everything. Don't like it? Ban it.

 

[JDragon]

............

Sorry, can't hear you in the vacuum of space

 

[Andy Capp]

By the way, there are supposed to be live updates here: https://www.nasa.gov/nasalive
But I don't know when.

 

[Lvnvmma]

Sucks we were born way too early for space travel. We'll never get to experience going on vacation to the giant space hotel at the edge of the universe.

 

[Andy Capp]

NASA Live
New Horizons #UltimaThule Flyby Events (All Times Eastern). New Horizons live events will air on NASA Television. For programming details, visit the Applied Physics Laboratory (APL) Where to Watch page. For mission status updates follow @NASANewHorizons.
Tuesday, Jan. 1, 11:30 a.m.: New Horizons Post-Flyby Press Conference

Wednesday, Jan. 2, 2 p.m.: New Horizons press briefing on science results from Ultima Thule.

Thursday, Jan. 3, 2 p.m.: New Horizons press briefing on science results from Ultima Thule.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Although it won't be in 2019, the jwst should be every engineering fans most anticipated launch. The most dynamic and fragile observation design ever created, to be launched in one piece, but not to any polar, low, geostationary, or walking orbit - but to a L2 point. Which means If it breaks, assembled wrong or misses, that's it. No Hubble do overs.

 

[NoDak]

Who says it doesn't fit? There are multiple angles that need political discussion:

• Prioritization of budgets
• Manned vs unmanned missions
• Private vs public
• Outer Space Treaty / Militarization of space
• Strategic implications of space programs
• Technology discussion (cross-over to aerospace)
• Jobs
• International cooperation (with Russia, ESA, etc.) especially considering the crazy lead time for these missions

Also, many posters who want to discuss the topic post here rather than in the Mayberry, so...

This was the original attempt btw but haven't updated in ages.

Ah yeah, that's always my diplomatic cover.

Although it won't be in 2019, the jwst should be every engineering fans most anticipated launch. The most dynamic and fragile observation design ever created, to be launched in one piece, but not to any polar, low, geostationary, or walking orbit - but to a L2 point. Which means If it breaks, assembled wrong or misses, that's it. No Hubble do overs.

The largest space telescope ever constructed. One which has a mirror three times the size of the HST with a light collecting area seven times greater whilst having one-tenth the mass. It'll be able to detect infrared light that's 400 times fainter than any currently operational scope can manage and will also be searching for bio-markers by characterizing the atmospheres of exoplanets.

 

[Fawlty]

Also maybe this will be another attempt to make a space thread, after I got sloppy with the last attempt.

Spoiler

If you got tagged here, you expressed interest in the subject in earlier threads. I may re-use this list, so notify me if you don't wanna get tagged again.

@JudoThrowFiasco
@NoDak
@InternetHero
@GhostZ06
@RockstarChris
@KILL KILL
@WTF2008
@Arkain2K
@Bald1
@panamaican
@Lord Coke
@Brodels
@oldshadow
@MadSquabbles500
@Krallang
@jefferz
@PEB

edit me in!

Nice recap, lots of cool stuff last year.

 

[JDragon]

Although it won't be in 2019, the jwst should be every engineering fans most anticipated launch. The most dynamic and fragile observation design ever created, to be launched in one piece, but not to any polar, low, geostationary, or walking orbit - but to a L2 point. Which means If it breaks, assembled wrong or misses, that's it. No Hubble do overs.

I remember reading about that and being fucking scared. Seems like way too much in one setting...

I really wonder how long it would take them, assuming failure, and assuming budget (which probably would not come), to rebuild it.

 

[Lord Coke]

I wish I had something to contribute to the thread. As I don't, I'll be reading the links and hopefully will have something intelligent to say later.

 

[NoDak]

It's getting close to showtime for all the data to have been processed and final results to come in. This project has been a truly international scientific effort of incredibly high ambition in further advancing observational astrophysics. According to Einstein (GR), if the imaging efforts are successful the EHT should reveal a silhouette warping the light from infalling hot gas. Anyone care to place a wager against him?

Of all the objects and environmental conditions in the Universe, it's hard to get more extreme than at the event horizon of a black hole where the gravitation is so unbelievably strong and warps the space in its vicinity to such a degree that 'time' as we measure it comes to a virtual standstill. To get an idea of the density involved: if you could theoretically compress the mass of the Earth into a black hole, it would have an event horizon with a radius of 8.87 millimeters.

The Event Horizon Telescope (EHT) is a project to create a large telescope array consisting of a global network of radio telescopes and combining data from several very-long-baseline interferometry (VLBI) stations around the Earth. The aim is to observe the immediate environment of the Milky Way's supermassive black hole Sagittarius A*, as well as the even larger black hole in Messier 87, with angular resolution comparable to the black hole's event horizon. [1][2][3][4]

The EHT is composed of many radio observatories or radio telescope facilities around the world to produce a high-sensitivity, high-angular-resolution telescope. Through the technique of very-long-baseline interferometry (VLBI), many independent radio antennae separated by hundreds or thousands of miles can be used in concert to create a "virtual" telescope with an effective diameter of the entire planet.

Each year since its first data capture in 2006, the EHT array has moved to add more observatories to its global network of radio telescopes. The first image of the Milky Way's supermassive black hole, Sagittarius A*, could be produced in 2019, [8][9] and it will also test Albert Einstein's General Relativity at the extreme. [6][9]

 

[NoDak]

Kind of a cool general space science graphic.

(To an observer on Earth, these calculations are. From the hypothetical astronauts' frame of reference in the spaceship traveling at 99.9% the speed of c, the trip to Proxima Centauri would take no longer than a little over 70 days whilst 4.3 years have elapsed back on Earth. If we were going a little further out to Sirius A at roughly 8.6 light years away, the trip duration as observed by those on board would be 140 days. To the star Ross 248 at a distance of 10.3 light years, 168 days. Special Relativity: Not only does time dilate, but distance shrinks in the direction of motion.)

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

I remember reading about that and being fucking scared. Seems like way too much in one setting...

I really wonder how long it would take them, assuming failure, and assuming budget (which probably would not come), to rebuild it.

They have a live camera feed so people can watch them doing stress tests. If it doesn't work (speaking from experience, SaS-E L2 launches is among the hardest to accomplish - so it is a nerve racking challenge. However, the ESA is actually going to do their dark matter telescope "Euclid" first (maybe, its been delayed twice) so you guys will set most recent precedences with similar launches including Gaia and Planck observatory, etc. ESA has a great history with that particular launch.

 

[JDragon]

Kind of a cool general space science graphic.

(To an observer on Earth, these calculations are. From the hypothetical astronauts' frame of reference in the spaceship traveling at 99.9% the speed of c, the trip to Proxima Centauri would take no longer than a little over 70 days whilst 4.3 years have elapsed back on Earth. If we were going a little further out to Sirius A at roughly 8.6 light years away, the trip duration as observed by those on board would be 140 days. To the star Ross 248 at a distance of 10.3 light years, 168 days. Special Relativity: Not only does time dilate, but distance shrinks in the direction of motion.)

This always gets me. Time dilatation is a frightening concept because 'damn, everyone I knew is dead now', but at the same time, it enables time travel into the future, and it opens the possibility to become a spacefaring species in theory. Hell, even intergalactic travel (Andromeda: 28 years).

If we ever manage to build a ship that can approximate the speed of light, we may also have found the solution to save mankind: by having the ships return at specific timeframes in the future.

 

[Phr3121]

2018 has been a pretty exciting year regarding everything that had to do with space exploration.

Good thread. Good information. You can add me to your list. You left out one major issue and one major event:

. Pluto is now back on the list of planets - as of 2018.
. NASA will launch its SLS rocket in November or December of this year (2019). It will put SpaceX and Blue Origin to shame. It will surpass the Saturn V rocket. Worth watching a live launch.

"The Space Launch System is an American Space Shuttle-derived super heavy-lift expendable launch vehicle. It is part of NASA's deep space exploration plans including a crewed mission to Mars. The SLS is to be the most powerful rocket ever built with a total thrust greater than that of the Saturn V, although Saturn V could carry a greater payload mass."

First Stage (Block 1) - Core Stage:
. Engines: 4 RS-25D/E
. Thrust: 7,440 kN

 

[JDragon]

Good thread. Good information. You can add me to your list. You left out one major issue and one major event:

. Pluto is now back on the list of planets - as of 2018.
. NASA will launch its SLS rocket in November or December of this year (2019). It will put SpaceX and Blue Origin to shame. It will surpass the Saturn V rocket. Worth watching a live launch.

Thanks! Regarding your points: not sure about those two:

1) Pluto's planet status is in dispute as I am aware there was a study saying it should be a planet after all - but I am not aware of a decision by the IAU.

2) The info that the SLS launch will be end of 2019 sounds like old info as I am aware of a mid-2020 estimate.

 

[NoDak]

Falcon Heavy Launch



Super impressive feat by SpaceX and a real milestone. The Tesla roadster aboard is already more than 200 million miles from Earth and I guess it is safe to say it has more mileage than every other car im history...

That was awesome, Elon was great on that day.

(For comparison, the 1967-73 Saturn V's LEO payload capacity was 310,000 pounds -- 140,000 kilos, 140 metric motherfucking tons)

Boeing and SpaceX capsule astronauts named

Ever since NASA retired its space shuttle program in 2011, astronauts have relied on Russian rockets and capsules to reach the International Space Station. But in August, NASA announced the names of nine astronauts who will fly to the space station in new capsules built by Boeing and SpaceX.

For the first test flight of Boeing's CST-100 Starliner capsule, NASA picked Eric Boe, a veteran of two space shuttle missions; Nicole Aunapu Mann, who became an astronaut in 2013 and will be making her first trip to space; and Christopher Ferguson, who flew on three space shuttle missions before retiring from NASA in 2011 and joining Boeing's commercial space operations division.

For the first test flight of SpaceX's Crew Dragon capsule, NASA selected Robert Behnken and Douglas Hurley, each of whom made two space shuttle flights.

For the first formal mission involving Boeing's CST-100 Starliner, NASA picked Sunita Williams, a former commander of the ISS who has spent 322 days in space, and Josh Cassada, who became an astronaut in 2013 and will be making his first trip to space.

The first formal mission of SpaceX's Dragon capsule will be crewed by Michael Hopkins, who has spent 166 days aboard the space station, and Victor Glover, who was selected as an astronaut in 2013 and will be making his first spaceflight.

@Fawlty mentioned this in one of the geopolitics threads last week (think it was yours) and it's a serious embarrassment for the country. It's past time to GTFO the exorbitant Russian rides and onto an American-made LV.

Voyager 2 reaches interstellar space

NASA's Voyager 2 probe is now just the second human-made object to reach interstellar space. On Dec. 10, the space agency announced that the well-traveled spacecraft has exited the heliosphere, or "the protective bubble of particles and magnetic fields created by the sun." The probe is now more than 11 billion miles from Earth. Its twin, the Voyager 1 spacecraft, reached interstellar space in 2012.

Voyager 2 is about 11,182,000,000 miles away from Earth as I type this. (You can see the current figures here.) If we assume you can drive from San Francisco to LA and back in a (damn exhausting) day, you would still need about 40,000 years to reach the point where Voyager currently is with your car. At that point, Voyager 2 would be long gone already, of course, at its speed of 34,000 mph - but still only at a quarter of the distance to our next star.

There was a really inspiring documentary just recently produced on this mission.

 

[Phr3121]

Project Orion (nuclear propulsion) -- a nuclear bomb and rocket (all in one), 1960s:

"NASA Is Bringing Back Nuclear-Powered Rockets to Get to Mars"
Link: http://fortune.com/2018/02/15/nasa-nuclear-rockets-mars/

* Click to enlarge picture.

A design for the Orion propulsion module:

A design for a pulse unit:

 

[NoDak]

Project Orion (nuclear propulsion) -- a nuclear bomb and rocket (all in one), 1960s:

"NASA Is Bringing Back Nuclear-Powered Rockets to Get to Mars"
Link: http://fortune.com/2018/02/15/nasa-nuclear-rockets-mars/

Astronautix: Von Braun Mars Expedition

American Manned Mars Expedition, Study 1969. Wernher von Braun's final vision for a manned expedition to Mars was a robust plan that eliminated much of the risk of other scenarios. Two ships would fly in convoy from earth orbit to Mars and back. They were entirely reusable for future expeditions, the only element being expendable being the Mars Excursion Module used to visit the planet's surface. This was Von Braun's last attempt to convince the American government to finance his dream. Five months later he would be sidelined to a dead-end headquarters job at NASA, and leave the Agency two years after that.

The successful landing on the moon of Apollo 11 brought a brief period of political enthusiasm for manned spaceflight. A new Space Task Group was formed to recommend a post-Apollo manned space program. On 4 August 1969 NASA Administrator Paine briefed the Space Task Group, with Vice President Agnew chairing, on Marshall's proposed post-Apollo integrated plan. Von Braun briefed the plan for a manned expedition to Mars as a follow-on to Apollo. The Integrated Plan foresaw first flight of a manned space shuttle by 1975, an earth orbit space station soon thereafter, with production and improvement of the Saturn V continuing, and the NERVA nuclear thermal upper stage completing development.

Von Braun had tweaked his original Mars Expedition scenario between 1952 and 1956 to halve the size of his original Mars expedition spacecraft. He used the same methods in 1969 to come up with Mars spacecraft under half the mass of Boeing's 1968 IMIS. This allowed two Mars expedition spacecraft to travel in convoy on the mission together, providing Von Braun's preferred mutual support and back-up. The Nuclear Shuttles used for propulsion were essentially the same as Boeing's Primary Propulsion Modules, and had 38 metric tons less propellant. But due to lower delta-V's at Mars orbit, only three of the NERVA Primary Propulsion Modules (now called Nuclear Shuttles) were needed per spacecraft as opposed to five in Boeing's study.

The Mars spacecraft itself would refurbished via shuttle flights, two additional PPM stages attached, the whole thing resupplied and refueled, in readiness for further expeditions to Mars in 1983, 1986, and 1988 - leading to a 50-person Mars base by 1989. With the exception of the MEM, all of the spacecraft was reused. Von Braun estimated this colonization of Mars within 20 years could be accomplished with a peak NASA budget of $7 billion per year. This robust, relatively safe plan was the culmination of 20 years of Mars mission planning by the Peenemuende team and took full advantage of the other space infrastructure elements in NASA's master plan. It offered the possibility for Von Braun to witness his long-held dream of a manned expedition to Mars in his lifetime.

WvB Mars Mission Summary:

Propulsion: Nuclear Thermal
Braking at Mars: Propulsive
Mission Type: Opposition
Venus Swing-by: Yes
Split or All-Up: All Up
ISRU: No ISRU
Launch Year: 1981
Crew: 12
Mars Surface payload-metric tons: 5
Outbound time-days: 270 Mars
Stay Time-days: 80
Return Time-days: 290
Total Mission Time-days: 640
Total Payload Required in LEO-metric tons: 1452
Total Propellant Required-metric tons: 1088
Propellant Fraction: 0.74
Mass per crew-metric tons: 121
Launch Vehicle Payload to LEO-metric tons: 249
Number of Launches to Assemble in LEO: 6
Launch Vehicle: Saturn V-25(S)U

 

[Phr3121]

Proof of ice on the moon:

Scientists said in August they discovered the first definitive evidence of water ice on the lunar surface. The ice, detected at the moon’s north and south poles, could serve as a source of water for future lunar expeditions or to sustain moon colonies.

Not exactly news:

"Lunar water is water that is present on the Moon. Liquid water cannot persist at the Moon's surface, and water vapor is decomposed by sunlight, with hydrogen quickly lost to outer space. However, scientists have conjectured since the 1960s that water ice could survive in cold, permanently shadowed craters at the Moon's poles. Water molecules are also detected in the thin layer of gases above the lunar surface."