The scoring value of a "take down" in the eyes of UFC judges

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by FrankDux, Feb 28, 2020.

  1. FrankDux

    FrankDux I'm tired of labels...

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    Are all takedowns equal in the eyes of the judges, in terms of scoring/points etc., regardless if anything comes of it?

    Should a takedown, one where the fighter who gets taken down is immediately able to get back up with ease, be viewed/scored the same as a takedown where it actually leads to ground control/GNP/submission attempts etc. and not just lay-n-pray? Also, should the "immediately getting right back up" part hold any scoring/point value in the eyes the judges?

    IMO I think takedowns where NOTHING happens and the fighter immediately gets right back up should not count the same as a takedown that actually leads to ground control. My understanding is regardless if anything happens, all takedowns hold the same officiating value for judges and I don't understand why that is fair. I actually think it says more about the fighter who's immediately able to get right back up because they are denying ground control. It's like the anti-takedown...if takedowns are scored then the act of denying ground control and immediately getting back up should have equal officiating value or could negate any scoring/points for the takedown...because you've just denied them the ground. THAT'S a form of octogon control if you ask me. I know this also goes into the "pressing the fight" and "offensive vs defensive". Of course, I could be completely wrong on this, just trying to look at this all objectively. Your thoughts?
     
  2. arcadeperfect

    arcadeperfect Green Belt

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    Takedowns should only matter if there's damage/submissions/LONG periods of control. Other than that it should be scored like a blocked strike aka next to nothing.
     
  3. Fahcough

    Fahcough Red Belt

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    Every 3 failed TDs should be -1 point on cards.
     
  4. boladiQup

    boladiQup Purple Belt

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    i'm not 100% familiar with all of the rules of wrestling (or for all the different types of wrestling) but i believe if you get up fast enough after a takedown it doesn't count..? i could be wrong about that or maybe only certain styles of wrestling follow this rule but for some reason i feel like this is a thing.

    <Fedor23>
     
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  5. 2004 account

    2004 account Longtime fan

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    Take downs are scored ambigously in favor of the ufcs and bettors convenience

    It's like it has a sliding scale of value, they can change it whenever they feel like it to fit their questionable decisions.
     
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  6. Coconutwater

    Coconutwater Brown Belt

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    It should be like near fall points.

    The ref should immediately start counting to ten and if the opponent isn’t up yet, give points.
     
  7. aerius

    aerius Red Belt

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    If we go by the unified rules of MMA, a takedown doesn't score unless you've established some kind of attack or done damage with the takedown. A big DC style slam would score whereas dragging a guy to the ground doesn't score unless it's followed up with ground strikes or sub attempts.

    Problem is it rarely works that way in real life. Takedowns still score even if the guy gets right back up, and if you can hold him down for 20-30 seconds it's almost guaranteed to win a round even if absolutely nothing happens.
     
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  8. The DanaWhite

    The DanaWhite Pink Belt

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    if no damage occurs from it i believe it should only count as something if the round was even prior. If the round was not even prior and the guy shooting the takedown was getting whooped for 4 mins prior then it should not count for more. Only if it was even prior
     
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  9. HHJ

    HHJ Fedor Supremacist

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    There is def a prevailing belief that a takedown clinches the round for someone in a competitve round,regardless if anything is done with it. That is wrong. That is very wrong. It alters the way people fight,in a not good way. Shooting for a td in the last 30 seconds,for the sake of points,is shitty.
     
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  10. lifelessheap

    lifelessheap Gold Belt

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    When guys hear the 10 second clacks and then go for a cheap take down...

    Fuck Cruz.
     
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  11. FrankDux

    FrankDux I'm tired of labels...

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    Can anyone cite a source/link for UFC's take down scoring or is it different from State to state/judge to judge?
     
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  12. aerius

    aerius Red Belt

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    Unified MMA rules
    https://www.dca.ca.gov/csac/forms_pubs/publications/unified_rules_2017.pdf

    Excerpt:
    PRIORITIZED CRITERIA: Effective Striking/Grappling “Legal blows that have immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute towards the end ofthe match with the IMMEDIATE weighing in more heavily than the cumulative impact. Successful execution of takedowns, submission attempts, reversals and the achievement of advantageous positions that produce immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute to the end of the match, with the IMMEDIATE weighing more heavily than the cumulative impact.” It shall be noted that a successful takedown is not merely a changing of position, but the establishment of an attack from the use of the takedown. Top and bottom position fighters are assessed more on the impactful/effective result of their actions, more so than their position. This criterion will be the deciding factor in a high majority of decisions when scoring a round. The next two criteria must be treated as a backup and used ONLY when Effective Striking/Grappling is 100% equal for the round.
     
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  13. StanClarker

    StanClarker Green Belt

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    Disagree. A take down, as with the Judo throw, shows the opponent's loss of ability to control the fight,,, even if it is only temporary. It's shows that your opponent is vulnerable to being taken out of their element.[<cena1}
     
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  14. HHJ

    HHJ Fedor Supremacist

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    I dont blame the fighters for doing it. Its the scoring criteria that needs to change.
     
  15. StanClarker

    StanClarker Green Belt

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    This makes sense. Good post.

    Take downs which are immediately defended should score lower, for certain.

    Yet as a Judo player... the ability to take down the opponent is the whole game... to a large degree. I think there is a different underlying view in Judo because of it's jiu jitsu origins.<21>
     
  16. Coconutwater

    Coconutwater Brown Belt

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    How do you feel about bullshite flurries? Throwing 15-20 punches in rapid succession but none having any steam on them but landing cleanly enough to be seen?
     
  17. HHJ

    HHJ Fedor Supremacist

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    Its up to the judges to know what they are seeing. If a fighter can con them by doing that,we need better judges.
     
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  18. sdpdude9

    sdpdude9 Brown Belt

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    I only give credit for takedowns if position is secured and especially if it’s prolonged control. That to me is putting yourself in an advantageous position and one should get credit for that provided the guy on the bottom isn’t beating them up off their back or attempting close submissions.

    However, I don’t give much credence to takedowns where the guy gets back up unless the round was entirely even otherwise, then it is enough to edge a round.
     
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  19. arcadeperfect

    arcadeperfect Green Belt

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    But a quick recovery has to account for something, it means the opponent was able to recover without taking significant damage or being severely compromised. That's why the element of control needs to be judged accordingly. You can't get outstruck for majority of the round and expect to steal the round off of one takedown.
     
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  20. IngaVovchanchyn

    IngaVovchanchyn Titanium Belt Platinum Member

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    I think takedowns and top control both count for a lot less than they did eight or nine years ago. Most judges weight them about right imo, but sometimes there seems to be inconsistency.
     
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