The Russian Banger Pavlovich prototype is nothing new

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With all the hype Pavlovich has been getting (well deserved) its important to take a look at the origins of the Pavlovich prototype and where it was first seen. It was first seen in Japan in the Pride ring many years ago. Almost 20 years ago to be exact. Pride had REEL Russian bangers with REEL hands and REEL sambo 17 years ago. Basically the Pavlocich prototype everyone is hyped about today. The hype is desrevee and Pavlovich is awesome but what he brings to the table in terms of SKILL is nothing new and not a product of evolution.

Aleks was was 6'5 250lbs with lightning fast hands and KO power with slick footwork and he had YEARS of training grappling with prime Fedor. Sergei was a 6'4 240lb paratrooper who could have boxed in the Olympics and also spent years training Sambo with Fedor and with masters like Volk Han. He had insane toughness and fighting spirit and fought Werdum and Big Nog on the ground during their grappling primes and never came close to being submitted. Both of these guys were in their 20s and in their PRIME and throwing down toe to toe with skill and big PAUER much like Pavlocich does.

Not only were they throwing down hard but they were also demonstrating skill and control. It never looked like they were wild or sloppy. Each shot they threw was thrown with meaning and purpose. They had clean footowrk and adept movement.

Aleks was light on his feet and setting up his shots with feints and snappy jabs and he was landing lightning fast right hands. Sergei was moving forward like a tank and rolling with shots and using an educated jab until he eventually found his mark with the right hand and dropped Aleks and immediately mounted him. Getting mounted by Sergei while being rocked was a DANGEROUS PLACE. Look what he did to Schilt. Smashed his face with hammer fists until Schilt started grunting like a dying animal.



Aleks stayed cool and tied Sergei up and surived somehow and scrambled out from under mount and regained his guard and eventually got back up where the the two bangers squared off again. Aleks measures Sergei and hits him with a sniper like right hand and stuns him and Sergei puts on his poker face and tries to reel Aleks in to brawl and Aleks cracks him with the same right hand again and sends Sergei down, diving for his legs after getting visibily hurtand thus gives up dominant position to Aleks. Aleks puts him in a dagestani handcuff and finishes Sergei EASTERN PROMISES prison shower scene style, with grounded knees to the head late into the 10 min first round.

The way Aleks dropped Sergei was nice but the way he finished the fight was even more impressive. He held Sergei in the Dagestani handcuff position while kneeing Sergeis skull to China. This technique is used by guys like Khabib and Bader (recently used it on Fedor) and newer fans marvel at this technique like it's something new but its actually nothing new. As you can see Pride HWs were using this move on the white rings of Pride 16 years ago.

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When you understand the striking skill and grappling skill that these guys had you understand that these men were SKILLED and their skillsets transcended the so called "EVOLUTION" theory which U FIGHT CHEAP stans push to diminish the guys from the past. Their skills would be VALID today nearly 20 years later.

Aleks and Sergei were either equal to or more skilled than guys like Lewis, Tuivasa, Gane, Jarzino and Volkov depending on the match ups. They would be in the top 5 in the UFC today and they would be potential title contenders just like Pavlovich is which is remarkable considering they were at their best almost 20 years ago.

In Pride they were top 10 HWs trying to prove themselves. Let that sink in. It's important to study these fights in the heavies where the narrative is that men didn't know how to fight until the UFC bought Strikeforce. It's simply Dana White stan shill talk. These guys would have been throwing down on the highest level today, ALL DAY.

Another Russian banger from those days who was similar to Aleks and Sergei was Roman Zentsov who was good but he wasn't quite as good as them but he still had crazy knockout power in both hands and also spent years training his grappling with Fedor, Sergei and Aleks. I think he could have easily banged with the Lewis and Tuivasa types of today. All day.



The HW division in those days was skilled and the HW division of those days was DEEP. Roman wasn't even in the top 10. He wasnt even in the top 15 which is wild. You had multiple Pavlovich prototypes in those days PLUS the top dogs like Fedor, Nog, Cop, Nett, Werdum, Hunt, AA, Tim, Ricco, Mir, and Randy and dangerous fringe top15 guys like Coleman, Randleman, Gary, Fujita, Igor, Herring and Schilt lurking.

It's really important for U FIGHT CHEAP fans of today to understand that when it comes to the HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION, they are watching a WORSE PRODUCT, featuring less skill and less depth. It doesn't mean the HWs today suck, it just means they're not as good. Hope you enjoyed my thread.
 
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Prime Aleks could def be champ today which is wild to think about since he was barely top 10 at his best back then. HW had some incredible grapplers back then like Barnett and Werdum who he couldnt get past. The depth of HW was at its peak back then still never been close to as good.

Jailton, maybe Aspinall would be the only real grappling threats to him. And Jailton is a small HW. Romanov, Espino and Spivac are probably the next 3 best grapplers in UFC HW LMFAO. The grappling level is at all time lows @ HW and LHW. They'd get rekt. Blaydes is too chinny and wouldnt be able to deal with the handspeed.

Gane VS mid 00s Aleks wouldve been a war and damn fun to watch. One dimensional low level guys like Lewis, Pavlovich, Tai, Daukaus have nothing for him. He is far more talented, athletic, faster than the likes of Volkov and Rozenstruik.
 
Is he black?

Ignoring race and background and focusing on style.

I'd say Sergei K definitely was a much more refined boxer and of course a much more prooven grappler, even Aleks at his best I don't think he focused as much on rushing people down, there was more slickness to his boxing.

Pavlovich's sucess really has been based on ultra aggressive brawling much like Ngannou. putting people under extreme pressure fast not picking out technical strikes.
 
Prime Aleks could def be champ today which is wild to think about since he was barely top 10 at his best back then. HW had some incredible grapplers back then like Barnett and Werdum who he couldnt get past. The depth of HW was at its peak back then still never been close to as good.

Jailton, maybe Aspinall would be the only real grappling threats to him. And Jailton is a small HW. Romanov, Espino and Spivac are probably the next 3 best grapplers in UFC HW LMFAO. The grappling level is at all time lows @ HW and LHW. They'd get rekt. Blaydes is too chinny and wouldnt be able to deal with the handspeed.

Gane VS mid 00s Aleks wouldve been a war and damn fun to watch. One dimensional low level guys like Lewis, Pavlovich, Tai, Daukaus have nothing for him. He is far more talented, athletic, faster than the likes of Volkov and Rozenstruik.

Facts my G

<BC1>
 
Ignoring race and background and focusing on style.

I'd say Sergei K was definitely was a much more refined boxer and of course a much more prooven grappler, even Aleks at his best I don't think he focused as much on rushing people down, there was more slickness to his boxing.

Pavlovich's sucess really has been based on ultra aggressive brawling much like Ngannou. putting people under extreme pressure fast not picking out technical strikes.

Sergei Pav is a Russian banger who's been training Sambo and greco his whole life. I wouldn't say he's exactly like Alex or Sergei but def comparable.
 
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Prime Aleks could def be champ today which is wild to think about since he was barely top 10 at his best back then. HW had some incredible grapplers back then like Barnett and Werdum who he couldnt get past. The depth of HW was at its peak back then still never been close to as good.

Jailton, maybe Aspinall would be the only real grappling threats to him. And Jailton is a small HW. Romanov, Espino and Spivac are probably the next 3 best grapplers in UFC HW LMFAO. The grappling level is at all time lows @ HW and LHW. They'd get rekt. Blaydes is too chinny and wouldnt be able to deal with the handspeed.

Gane VS mid 00s Aleks wouldve been a war and damn fun to watch. One dimensional low level guys like Lewis, Pavlovich, Tai, Daukaus have nothing for him. He is far more talented, athletic, faster than the likes of Volkov and Rozenstruik.

<{anton}>
 
Honestly I think Pavlovic has more in common with Ngannou than he does these guys, he's more a big powerful brawler who rushes people down, arguably even less refined than Francis.

Ridiculous and shows you

1) Do not train

2) Have no respect for the sport

3) Have no respect for the opinions of all of the professional fighters who Pavlovich trains with and who he has beaten and they all say he is a great striker.

The idea that Ngannou is a brawler is ridiculous. Super LOW IQ thing to say. Yeah Rozenstruk fight is 1 example but otherwise Ngannou has shown great timing, great range control, and varied arsenal of punches and even kicks he is far from a brawler. In fact Brawlers would be guys in the Pride era like Coleman, Herring, Randleman and Tank Abbott back in the day.

The same people also say Lewis is a brawler which is also ridiculous but at least Lewis is less refined ib his striking than Ngannou. To say Ngannou is a brawler is highly disrespectful

Prime Aleks could def be champ today which is wild to think about since he was barely top 10 at his best back then. HW had some incredible grapplers back then like Barnett and Werdum who he couldnt get past. The depth of HW was at its peak back then still never been close to as good.

Jailton, maybe Aspinall would be the only real grappling threats to him. And Jailton is a small HW. Romanov, Espino and Spivac are probably the next 3 best grapplers in UFC HW LMFAO. The grappling level is at all time lows @ HW and LHW. They'd get rekt. Blaydes is too chinny and wouldnt be able to deal with the handspeed.

Gane VS mid 00s Aleks wouldve been a war and damn fun to watch. One dimensional low level guys like Lewis, Pavlovich, Tai, Daukaus have nothing for him. He is far more talented, athletic, faster than the likes of Volkov and Rozenstruik.

This is ridiculous

Mark Coleman was a top 10 HW back then. Coleman is super 1 dimesional a terrible striker and terrible BJJ who got submitted by white belts.

Kevin Randleman another 1 dimesional wrestler submitted by white belts and his best striking feat was flash KOing Cro Cop by fluke.

Valetjin Overeem- literally a can crusher with ni chin and poor fight IQ. He did manage to beat Randy Couture but he would not be relevant in 2013 which was peak HW or today.

Gary Goodridge was top 10 then. I mean really?

Heath Herring- lmao to even say this guy would be top 10 today or let alone in 2013

Big Nog- good resume but literally 1 dimesional BJJ guy who only ever finished with strikes 2 WW cans and Schaub. Known for getting his ass beat in every iconic fight he won before he eventually dragged someone down and submitted them. Poor offensive wrestler and terrible striking.


This isnt even mentioning half the PRIDE HW division was LHWs or MWs who wouldnt cut or men weighing 220lbs to 233lbs aka modern sized LHWs.... 2013 was peak of the division with rrgards to the amount of BJJ black belts, division 1 wrestlers, and high caliber strikers were there fron K1 or elsewhere.
 
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That fkn bottle eh?

Robbed us of what could have been a true great at HW. Aleks was REALLY fast for a guy so big.

Beating Sergei how he did at that time was massive. He was one of the best boxers in MMA at the time and got smoked standing, yes he fucked around and found out... but that Aleks was a problem for anyone.

Just turns out "Anyone" also means housekeepers
 
{<BJPeen}

Imagine an idiot like you going into every Mike Tyson thread just to say "Mike Tyson is a rapist fuck him" everyone reading the thread would come the conclusion that you're an idiot. Determining if you should watch a fight of a cage fighter based on their moral status. If it bothers you so much why even comment? Why not just stfu and keep it moving instead derailing an intelligent thread? And thus because you fail to understand this means you're low iq. Next time don't comment.

If I want to comment I'll comment. Freedom of speech dude. If I see a lot of praise going on for a rapist, then I'll likely point out that they're a rapist.

It is what it is.
 
Ridiculous and shows you

1) Do not train

2) Have no respect for the sport

3) Have no respect for the opinions of all of the professional fighters who Pavlovich trains with and who he has beaten and they all say he is a great striker.

The idea that Ngannou is a brawler is retarded. Super LOW IQ thing to say. Yeah Rozenstruk fight is 1 example but otherwise Ngannou has shown great timing, great range control, and varied arsenal of punches and even kicks he is far from a brawler. In fact Brawlers would be guys in the Pride era like Coleman, Herring, Randleman and Tank Abbott back in the day.

The same people also say Lewis is a brawler which is also ridiculous but at least Lewis is less refined ib his striking than Ngannou. To say Ngannou is a brawler is highly disrespectful.

"Brawler" in itself does not mean "Bad", I think that reading actually shows a lack of understanding of the sport.

In this case especially I think it sums up the difference in style between the two Sergei's very well, Kharitonov was at his peak more of a technical boxer, he would look to pick out openings. Pavlovich's style is much more based around rushing opponents down and throwing very aggressively which is also Francis style. I did say I think Francis was a bit slicker, I think he controls range a bit better and whilst some punchs are wild others are less so.

If your looking at modern Sergei's style really for me it doesnt bare that much similarity to the guys mentioned in the OP which was by point, maybe latter day post kickboxing Sergei K is a bit more similar but thats not what was being reffered to.
 
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"Brawler" in itself does not mean "Bad", I think that reading actually shows a lack of understanding of the sport.

In this case especially I think it sums up the difference in style between the two Sergei's very well, Kharitonov was at his peak more of a technical boxer, he would look to pick out openings. Pavlovich's style is much more based around rushing opponents down and throwing very aggressively which is also Francis style. I did say I think Francis was a bit slicker, I think he controls range a bit better and whilst some punchs are wild others have are less so.

If your looking at modern Sergei's style really for me it doesnt bare that much similarity to the guys mentioned in the OP which was by point, maybe latter day post kickboxing Sergei K is a bit more similar but thats not what was being reffered to.

Well why use the word brawler then because the forum indicates Brawler to mean poor striker who just swings for the fences. And the Thread Starter is a hater of the current era. I doubt he even watches modern MMA because all he does is post about 20 and 15 year old fights saying no human can match that skill today. Seriously he also has no idea about fighting he tried to say Fedor was KOd by a hook from Bader when it was a jab and someone proke it down frame by frame to prove it. He never admitted his mistakes like a man instead he flees and insults others who dare critique Pride fighters.

Thing is Pavlovich in the UFC has been getting his wins all in under 1 round and usually within 1 minute or 2. There is not a lot of footage of him even before the UFC he has only 3 decision wins off the top of my head. Every other win is a KO in 2 minutes or less. In his Fight Nights global he did display more takedown defense and variety with knees. The Lewis and Tai fights showed him with great timing, range and he did feel them out they each left openings. Lewis only grazed the top of his head. Tai hit him 2x but only after he was rocked himself and on poor footing.
 
"Brawler" in itself does not mean "Bad", I think that reading actually shows a lack of understanding of the sport.

In this case especially I think it sums up the difference in style between the two Sergei's very well, Kharitonov was at his peak more of a technical boxer, he would look to pick out openings. Pavlovich's style is much more based around rushing opponents down and throwing very aggressively which is also Francis style. I did say I think Francis was a bit slicker, I think he controls range a bit better and whilst some punchs are wild others have are less so.

If your looking at modern Sergei's style really for me it doesnt bare that much similarity to the guys mentioned in the OP which was by point, maybe latter day post kickboxing Sergei K is a bit more similar but thats not what was being reffered to.

Its important to recognize who Pavlovich was fighting in his most recent fights. I dont think he would approach fighting Aleks and Sergei the same way he approached Lewis and Tuivasa. They had the skills to hurt him if he was over aggressive. Lewis and Tuivasa don't have those kind of skills and counters so Pav went in on them guns blazing. He wouldn't get away with that against someone like Aleks and Sergei.
 
Well why use the word brawler then because the forum indicates Brawler to mean poor striker who just swings for the fences. And the Thread Starter is a hater of the current era. I doubt he even watches modern MMA because all he does is post about 20 and 15 year old fights saying no human can match that skill today. Seriously he also has no idea about fighting he tried to say Fedor was KOd by a hook from Bader when it was a jab and someone proke it down frame by frame to prove it. He never admitted his mistakes like a man instead he flees and insults others who dare critique Pride fighters.

Thing is Pavlovich in the UFC has been getting his wins all in under 1 round and usually within 1 minute or 2. There is not a lot of footage of him even before the UFC he has only 3 decision wins off the top of my head. Every other win is a KO in 2 minutes or less. In his Fight Nights global he did display more takedown defense and variety with knees. The Lewis and Tai fights showed him with great timing, range and he did feel them out they each left openings. Lewis only grazed the top of his head. Tai hit him 2x but only after he was rocked himself and on poor footing.

In this case I think its a valid term to use because it does describe clear differences in style, ultimately my post was disagreeing with the OP saying I felt Sergei P really was more similar to Ngannou than he was Sergei K and I stand by that.
 
In this case I think its a valid term to use because it does describe clear differences in style, ultimately my post was disagreeing with the OP saying I felt Sergei P really was more similar to Ngannou than he was Sergei K and I stand by that.

Okay I would agree with you there. My rush to day Pav is similar was in defense of Sambo Russian based fighters. Tbh they are all similar height and Sambo based and Sergei Kharitonov was military as is Pavlovich. I think Aleks served as well.

Pavlovich is similar to Ngannou in his range attacks, his defense, and his offensive striking. Straights, hooks, jabs, knees. Ngannou just has more power
 
Francis' striking looks pretty solid at times.

Seems that he'd completely disregarded Rozenstruik from whatever reason, and decided that he will just whack him.

Worked perfectly, but could have ended badly for him, kinda risky approach.
 
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