The Road to Wing Chun applied in Combat Sports

Boxing must return to it's old-school roots in English bare-knuckle mma-like pre-Queensberry version or even further, to Greek pancrase.
I don't even think you need to go that back that far back Chavez in the 80's, Duran in the 70's, Marciano 50's, Walcott 50's, Ray Robinson and hundreds of other old timers after the 1920's were incredible inside fighters.

Mayweather and Toney in the modern era are also fantastic inside fighters.
 
Agree on the commentary... again described in boxing lingo. Hard to tell the quality of the background... makes entertaining viewing.


No question on the observable conclusion. It's how you arrived. The thesis falls apart when one considers the caliber of that populated by MMA competitors.

And sure thing,,, it's real skills to down a significantly out sized opponent by natural physique. We see the same discussion of BJJ over Judo. The wiser know the score.<GOT2>

Is English your second language?
 
The more you pressure test boxing and kickboxing at close range, the more its been proven to fail miserably and had to evolve to incorporate 'dirty boxing'/clinch fighting and modified MT.

So great, MMA rediscovered large parts of Wing Chun in a sport context and proved that the principles and methods work at that range.

I love how anyone could think MMA validated pure boxing. That shit has to be modified into basically a different style to have any chance to work. They even get pieced up in BK boxing.

Yes, WC in MMA will look more like fighting in MMA, just as every style adapts. Show me a pure textbook MT fighter in MMA.

If you want pure cultural form WC you get the neck chops and everything else, then the "too deadly" brigade comes out even tho that stuff works if u need it. You seesaw between these views.

If I fight MMA, yes WC will have overlap with dirty boxing and MT in close range and is as good as either to get you profficient there with some other differences.

WC no rules and fighting in general no rules is a moot point that no one here is qualified to form a valid opinion on and don't reference UFC 1-4 it proves very little other than yes strikers need takedown defence.

Show me a high level MMA fighter that uses WC as their primary skill set, that supplements with other styles...........
 
Show me a high level MMA fighter that uses WC as their primary skill set, that supplements with other styles...........
We've been down this road many times. MMA has the same problem w competitors supposed prepared & then find out they've been standing on a house of cards. Eddie Wineland.<209Bitch>
 
Show me a high level MMA fighter that uses WC as their primary skill set, that supplements with other styles...........
Besides, if you were really a high level coach for MMA, which is what you aspire, then you would read correctly into my statement that Wing chun just really doesn't fit the mold of the MMA competitor culture... the overwhelming negatively in MMA media proves.<{JustBleed}>
 
Show me a high level MMA fighter that uses WC as their primary skill set, that supplements with other styles...........
The point I make, that sparring is some ABSOLUTE magic training which MAKES martial arts effective... as an absolute is BULL SH*T. The issue has two sides of the martial training coin.

For boxing science, the progression in sparring is, as you say, the ultimate bringer of skill. The depth of that training,,, and the depth of the boxing program overall,,, is the real driver. I, myself, am really impressed,,, just starting out with that female boxing challenge video... to gain a window as to how well developed boxing science is. An what a terrific challenge boxing is too.<{silvanormal}>
 
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Is English your second language?
I think you, or 'FAn or whomever you are... should take on a coaching MMA challenge. Me, I'm doing Judo... still nowhere on striking. I've posted my investigation... and for broad applicability... to MMA ... boxing is where my weight is for striking stlyle. The other popular styles too, Muay Thai works just as MMA says.... boxing science is deeper.

Karate,,, I think has the most potential, which is signaled by it's unrivaled popularity around the entire world. To get it to MMA level of competitiveness... same but lesser problem than Wing Chun,,, whatever wing chun is.

Matt Thornton of SBG, the very successful MMA outfit, boasts about his JKD which is then an offshot of Wing chun.... guy never uses it or really trains it... it's all kickboxing stuff which he now readily admits. As I said... all his glam was BULL SH*T. He & I come out at the same place,,,, funny.{<hhh]
 
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The advantage of karate, as shown here, is that it gets people who would never fight, can't fight,,, and get's them elevated. The disadvantage,,, also show here, as blasted all over the internet... is what effort is required to rise above this? I mean I can't bear to go to the local TKD outfit and sit through this. Judo, is more directed & more practical for ??? reason.

The ironic thing is, all these blogs promoting MMA which are not commercially affiliated... are now proclaiming to there's more to TMA than meet the eye,,, and the MMA type real fighting they've been doing isn't all they thought it was cracked up to be. On top of that,,, it's media, not martial arts talking about this.

Then, you want to add wing chun to the mix??? I say start a blog and go for... I'm not stopping you.... lets's as the TMA critics and downers say.... see how it goes. Would be interesting, very.<HanaKimura02>
 
I don't even think you need to go that back that far back Chavez in the 80's, Duran in the 70's, Marciano 50's, Walcott 50's, Ray Robinson and hundreds of other old timers after the 1920's were incredible inside fighters.

Mayweather and Toney in the modern era are also fantastic inside fighters.
Here's a good point.... boxers are taught to exchange in close range... as MMA puts it. Problem is, they engage and all too often stand and punch each other over & over & over... for extended periods of time. That's the challenge of boxing, one of the real challenges.

I watched the Mayweather fights against MMA stars... the guy wiped the floor with MMA. Still, he took shots... which is pretty shocking considering how top-shelf he is. The many, many, many challenges of boxing are what I see are the issue. Taking karate lessons isn't the answer... neither is some 'rounded' MMA gym.

I say start a blog and use Wing chun.... put your $$$ where your mouth is. I predict a crash & burn. This is the realization MMA blogs are coming too all over... martial arts is tougher, the actual competition in a match is tougher than the answer they thought they had. Very apparent in my gal kumite vid.

Eddie Wineland,,, all this evolution offed in what, a minute or two. Champion level MMA, purportedly.{<Scared}
 
@StanClarker Jimmie's hustled......... 1 little message sent, so many big messages back............;)
<Cage33>
Yeah, more kiddie talk... put up a Wing Chun for MMA school blog. Prove it. Start w Come-back Conor,,, the secret to downing Khabib.

And yeah, it's a joke.<PandaHi75>I'd love to see how it turns out otherwise.
 
I can't wait for good Wing Chun fighters adapted for MMA, to just beat the living tar out of some mouthy boxers, kickboxers or whoever.

As though you're the only ones who can cross train and learn to fight a form of "MMA"....

It's coming, so...
<209Bitch>

I started with Judo myself

Most of the vids trashing WC are some pure striker vs grappler and u get a James Toney - Couture situation no surprises.

It is not a popular style in sport MMA and never will be.

But it can be adapted very effectively to standup MMA if you know what your doing. Anyone who doubts this is a fool...





 
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The more you pressure test boxing and kickboxing at close range, the more its been proven to fail miserably and had to evolve to incorporate 'dirty boxing'/clinch fighting and modified MT.
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People who think boxers can't handle a clinch, haven't spared with decent boxers.

And with kickboxers fighting on the inside, styles make fights, the reason why you would put pressure on a kickboxer and try and get on the inside would be because you are getting picked appart on the outside. If you have the advantage on the inside, that's where you would try to take the fight.
 
Explanation



Demonstration



Close combat specialists
 
And in application.



If any idiot out there ever says Wing Chun doesn't work- show them this video.

The exact same skills you see in the above videos are seen here. Closing distance and using chi sau skills and control, hitting from different angles and sensitivity.

It works if you can close them against the cage or close distance like the above,or if they come in close to attack you and fight but not if they try to run and jab or stay outside.

So it looks something like 'dirty boxing' in close but with different mechanics and better control, there is some overlap.

Of course minus the neck chops...

Wing Chun WORKS if you know how to properly train and use it
 
I think it’s the same case with wingchun as with other non ‘base’ arts, like TKD, karate, judo.

You can’t use it as your ONLY art, because it will have too many holes. WC doesn’t hold up to circular techniques (hooks) very well, tkd doesn’t hold up to leg kicks or pressure boxing very well, judo struggles with distance and nogi.

So instead, these arts need to il be integrated INTO to base arts of boxing/wrestling/MT/BJJ.

THEN, they can provide that extra 1% that high level competitors need.

Wrestling takedowns failing? Knowing trips and some hip throws can take the fight to the ground. In clinch, dirty boxing, WC trapping can help I’d guess. Opportunity to catch an opponent by surprise? Throw a wild powerful TKD kick. All useful in SPECIFIC scenarios, but not really to be relied upon throughout all ranges....
 
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The more you pressure test boxing and kickboxing at close range, the more its been proven to fail miserably and had to evolve to incorporate 'dirty boxing'/clinch fighting and modified MT.

What?????? Now I would really like to know your boxing history or were you have your infos from. There is not one "BOXING". Different styles have different advantages but in general boxing has a heavy history with wrestling. "Clinching" is part of boxing. Until the 40s at least wrestling often was an essential part of boxing training. Boxing was very effective at close range because of that. And everything was "pressure tested". Hand trapping...etc are boxing skills.

Someone like Jack Dempsey really was a killer in every aspect of hand to hand fighting because of that.

Even today quite some boxing coaches incorporate heavy clinch fighting especially if its at pro level. This is very effective and they will shut your offense down completely if you dont know how to counter.

Dont talk down on something you have no knowledge about.
 
I think it’s the same case with wingchun as with other non ‘base’ arts, like TKD, karate, judo.

You can’t use it as your ONLY art, because it will have too many holes. WC doesn’t hold up to circular techniques (hooks) very well, tkd doesn’t hold up to leg kicks or pressure boxing very well, judo struggles with distance and nogi.

So instead, these arts need to il be integrated INTO to base arts of boxing/wrestling/MT/BJJ.

THEN, they can provide that extra 1% that high level competitors need.

Wrestling takedowns failing? Knowing trips and some hip throws can take the fight to the ground. In clinch, dirty boxing, WC trapping can help I’d guess. Opportunity to catch an opponent by surprise? Throw a wild powerful TKD kick. All useful in SPECIFIC scenarios, but not really to be relied upon throughout all ranges....

Totally off...
It's not a base art in MMA because its not practiced as a combat sport. Simple and obvious.

If effort is made to adapt it to mma or full contact fighting it easily functions as a base art.

For WC as the base it resembles outwardly something between dirty boxing and Muay Thai, but with very different mechanics and principles in many ways.

But it has still has all the tools as a great base. Yes, adding some boxing shoulder rolls or other movements may add it that 5% to round it out as will gradually sparring different styles and picking things up here and there. But the core base art and engine is perfectly good on its own and maybe in my view a better base than boxing for self defence and if trained right maybe a better base in MMA for some people or for some strategies of fighting such as a close range in fighting style like Ferguson.

It's just so rare to see good WC actually embrace live training and sparring. Alan Orrs group is pretty much the only ones doing it, so as far as I can see for competition mma this is the only reference point.

Not some movie clips or some hobbyist fools in China (which incidently never had good WC schools since most of the high level teachers were in Hong Kong or overseas).

You want to see what WC can look like as a base with real training and fighting look here. I'm not saying it's the only approach to WC in combat but the only 'live tested' one so far as sanctioned fighting goes.
 
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