The reason why GSP is the best

agmattingly said:
Yes, only undefeated fighters are the best ever. That's Why Silva, GSP, Aldo, and so many other fighters suck.:rolleyes:
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Well, if technicality came into play... Anderson is undefeated in the UFC
 
LongTermLurker said:
The way the calculate the difference is based on rankings...which themselves are subjective.



Or do they mean higher or lower based on their ELO? I guess I misunderstood where they got higher and lower from originally.
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Yes, it is based on the ELO rating. They use this primarily in chess. One of the drawbacks for using in MMA is they do not fight as often as chessmasters play chess. But yes everytime you lose your rating goes down (by an objectively determined amount that can be pre-calculated based on knowing both fighters' ELO scores at that time). That is why there was a huge drop in rating for GSP when he lost to Serra since Serra's ELO score based on his previous fight record was so much lower than GSPs. The greater the disparity, the less the favorite will increase with a win but the more he will decrease with a loss.

So in this sense, the ELO score gives a good overall mathematical impression of a fighters strength of schedule since by fighting fewer higher ranked guys (who have earned their ELO scores by beating other highly ranked guys) is often much better than fighting more often but subpar opponents (ie low ELO scores/cans). However, it only gives an objective view of a fighters ability to win and what level of competition he is fighting, but absolutely nothing about the details of the fighter (That X-factor) such as finishing ability, well-roundedness, striking level, etc.
 
sp00k said:
Well, if technicality came into play... Anderson is undefeated in the UFC
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The post I quoted didn't specify where the loses took place. Nor should it matter. My point was that any fighter can lose. Some lose when they are still developing as fighters, others lose when they have an off night.
 
Free_MMAson said:
Yes, it is based on the ELO rating. They use this primarily in chess. One of the drawbacks for using in MMA is they do not fight as often as chessmasters play chess. But yes everytime you lose your rating goes down (by an objectively determined amount that can be pre-calculated based on knowing both fighters' ELO scores at that time). That is why there was a huge drop in rating for GSP when he lost to Serra since Serra's ELO score based on his previous fight record was so much lower than GSPs. The greater the disparity, the less the favorite will increase with a win but the more he will decrease with a loss.

So in this sense, the ELO score gives a good overall mathematical impression of a fighters strength of schedule since by fighting fewer higher ranked guys (who have earned their ELO scores by beating other highly ranked guys) is often much better than fighting more often but subpar opponents (ie low ELO scores/cans). However, it only gives an objective view of a fighters ability to win and what level of competition he is fighting, but absolutely nothing about the details of the fighter (That X-factor) such as finishing ability, well-roundedness, striking level, etc.
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Does it account for fighting someone before they improve. Or is it only at the point they fight?

So if Werdum fights unknown JDS...does it matter if JDS wins the rest of his fights or loses all of the rest?
 
magigong said:
i'll see your lutter
and raise you serra
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I'm not even sure why Lutter was mentioned. He finished Lutter lol and at the point Lutter got on top of Silva, AS pulled a ridiculous reversal on him to get out of that position while holding his arms just enough to not even really be hit.

All and all, I don't see the point of people constantly bringing that fight up.
 
LongTermLurker said:
Does it account for fighting someone before they improve. Or is it only at the point they fight?

So if Werdum fights unknown JDS...does it matter if JDS wins the rest of his fights or loses all of the rest?
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No it is only at that moment in time. In order to calculate how much a fighter will increase with a win or decrease with a win, you need to know the ELO scores of both fighters at that point in their respective careers, as this is the absolute numerical summary of what they have accomplished at that point in time (scores all influenced by the previous fighters ELO scores thus strength of schedule is factored into all this)

if you are interested you can read more. It is by no means a perfect system, but usually does give an accurate numerical summary of how well a fighter has done in their career.
http://www.mma-elo.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system
http://www.3dkingdoms.com/chess/elo.htm
 
Free_MMAson said:
No it is only at that moment in time. In order to calculate how much a fighter will increase with a win or decrease with a win, you need to know the ELO scores of both fighters at that point in their respective careers, as this is the absolute numerical summary of what they have accomplished at that point in time (scores all influenced by the previous fighters ELO scores thus strength of schedule is factored into all this)

if you are interested you can read more. It is by no means a perfect system, but usually does give an accurate numerical summary of how well a fighter has done in their career.
http://www.mma-elo.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system
http://www.3dkingdoms.com/chess/elo.htm
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Thank you sir.
 
TH1RTE3N said:
I'm not even sure why Lutter was mentioned. He finished Lutter lol and at the point Lutter got on top of Silva, AS pulled a ridiculous reversal on him to get out of that position while holding his arms just enough to not even really be hit.

All and all, I don't see the point of people constantly bringing that fight up.
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I think Lutter was brought up to show some of the "low quality" opponents Anderson has faced. I believe this was done in rebuttal to the references in this thread that GSP's opponents were "weak". I don't necessarily agree, but I believe that was the intent.

I think that most champs will fight some fighters that are said to be "unworthy" of a title shot if they hold the belt long enough. Oh, and when people just want to hate on someone....
 
Step 1. Choose guy whose nuts you want to hug.
Step 2. Think of something unique about him.
Step 3. Arbitrarily assert that in order to be GOAT you have to have that unique quality.

But I'm not even sure it's fair to say that's unique to GSP. Everybody knows Andy's gonna strike.
 
he has a great talent, his struggles could be as cool as those of Anderson, Aldo and Jones, but he preferred that his fights were dull
 
agmattingly said:
I think Lutter was brought up to show some of the "low quality" opponents Anderson has faced. I believe this was done in rebuttal to the references in this thread that GSP's opponents were "weak". I don't necessarily agree, but I believe that was the intent.

I think that most champs will fight some fighters that are said to be "unworthy" of a title shot if they hold the belt long enough. Oh, and when people just want to hate on someone....
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lol Gotcha, now the response from magigong really makes sense. Plus I forgot Lutter & Serra were TUF comeback winners. But all and all, both guys and Jones included have fought the next best guys available to defend their belt against, that's all that really matters.
 
TH1RTE3N said:
I'm not even sure why Lutter was mentioned. He finished Lutter lol and at the point Lutter got on top of Silva, AS pulled a ridiculous reversal on him to get out of that position while holding his arms just enough to not even really be hit.

All and all, I don't see the point of people constantly bringing that fight up.
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exactly,lutter got his shot just like serra. yet people like to discredit lutter yet give gsp credit for avenging his lost and the title back from serra, whom he should not have lost to in the first place
 
Everybody knows Andy will use his striking to destroy his oppoent, everybody knows the roles in his game but his unstoppable

I say Andy
 
Maripucci said:
Yes a professional fighter is scared...
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He may not be scared but he's passed the opportunity to except a fight with Silva while it was being pursued and has ignored the question a couple times. Once before the Kos and then Shields fight. It's his choice and I can't diss him for not wanting the fight since Silva is above his division, but he doesn't seem interested at all.
 
LongTermLurker said:
Thank you sir.
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You're welcome.

Also, I forgot to mention that for the third link for the ELO calculator, the K factor needs to be changed from 32 to 100. Thus, an example would be with GSP beating Condit at UFC 154 (not yet updated on MMA-ELO), he gained +28 for the win bringing him to 2367 and decreasing Carlos Condit -28 from 2172 to 2144. Likewise for GSP vs Diaz, if GSP wins he will increase +20 to 2387 and Diaz will decrease -20 from 2126 to 2106. A Diaz win however would decrease GSP -80 to 2287 with Diaz increasing +80 to 2206.

Also, not updated on MMA-ELO is Anderson Silva (2365) vs Stephen Bonnar (1875). With this, because Bonnar has a much lower score, Anderson only increased +6 to 2371, Bonnar decreasing -6 to 1869. Had Silva lost, he would have decreased -94 to 2271. Weight divisions do not matter only ELO scores so this usually favors the higher weight class since a high ELO score MW has a greater chance to lose against a mediocre LHW with a low ELO score thus causing a greater drop for the MW.
 
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