The real way to beat Jones

If anyone knew how to beat Jon Jones, it would've been done already. He's used the same style since he came into MMA.
 
Got GOAT said:
So, you think that Condit is able to move better for his size than Gustafsson? :icon_lol: And this is coming from a fan of them both.
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It was more about the kickboxing style than it is about who can move better. Jones proved he could weather the storm versus a boxer in Gus. I'm not sure if he could do the same versus a kickboxer who continues to target his legs. So yes, since Carlos Condit is a pretty good kickboxer, I'd say his style is one I'd study if I were fighting Jones. Actually both Gus and Condit have that stick and move style of movement.
 
Rhood said:
It's not about skills, it's about height & reach advantage.
It's the same reason why Donald Cerrone has problems against taller fighters in his weight division.
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Please go watch his fight against Pettis....
 
Rhood said:
It's not about skills, it's about height & reach advantage.
It's the same reason why Donald Cerrone has problems against taller fighters in his weight division.
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lol
 
SoberAwakening said:
It was more about the kickboxing style than it is about who can move better. Jones proved he could weather the storm versus a boxer in Gus. I'm not sure if he could do the same versus a kickboxer who continues to target his legs. So yes, since Carlos Condit is a pretty good kickboxer, I'd say his style is one I'd study if I were fighting Jones. Actually both Gus and Condit have that stick and move style of movement.
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Gustafsson is much better than Condit at the stick 'n move strategy though, not to mention he's not only quicker, lighter on his feet, more fluid and an all around better athlete. There are plenty of reasons why I don't think that's the answer, and one of them is that Jon has such long arms that he is able to stay in a crouched or semi-crouched stance and easily catch those leg kicks, at least outside leg kicks. He's smart enough to get out of optimal kicking range too and stay in close so he'd be able to shut that down before it really took it's toll on his legs. He's one of the smartest fighters in the sport and knows how to adapt.
 
If you look at fights where Jones showed weakness, it was with movement. Machida was able to frustrate Jones in the 1st and gus beat his ass the whole fight by sticking and moving. A lot of opponents become intimidated by the outstretched fingers and just stand there on the outside and pose with him. Bad idea to stand there like a dummy against a guy with crazy reach
 
FlexBelt said:
If anyone knew how to beat Jon Jones, it would've been done already. He's used the same style since he came into MMA.
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They said the same thing about Matt Hughes...

Point being every fighter has habits that can be exposed
 
Got GOAT said:
Gustafsson is much better than Condit at the stick 'n move strategy though, not to mention he's not only quicker, lighter on his feet, more fluid and an all around better athlete. There are plenty of reasons why I don't think that's the answer, and one of them is that Jon has such long arms that he is able to stay in a crouched or semi-crouched stance and easily catch those leg kicks, at least outside leg kicks. He's smart enough to get out of optimal kicking range too and stay in close so he'd be able to shut that down before it really took it's toll on his legs. He's one of the smartest fighters in the sport and knows how to adapt.
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Again, it's not about Gus vs Condit's style. Not sure how it got stuck on that topic. My point is if you get a long-legged kickboxer in there, he has a good chance of chopping Jones down. Jon isn't used to trying to catch leg kicks. That in itself will mess up his flow in my opinion. The one thing Gus did prove is that once Jon's flow is disrupted, it's hard for him to get back on track. I personally feel had Gus been a little more aggressive and went more for octagon control instead of sticking and moving, that fight would have been his no question. Everyone says to aim for Jon's legs and yet no one implements or even tries to implement that game plan.
 
Body shots...


who'd have ever guessed?
 
body shots are probably smarter against jones bc he has shown he can avoid getting tagged in the head, that being said the dude just poses a lot of problems body shots alone probably wont do the trick.
 
I expected to open this thread and see a picture of a guy wearing safety goggles.... I was disappointed.
 
body shots? cmon man hows comier gonna get close enough for that
 
I'm not sure if chopping at Jones' legs is the key, either. Jones is good at adapting, and the last thing you want is a great mma wrestler with brutal elbows catching your kick and taking you down into his wheelhouse.

Gus DID show exactly what you need to beat Jones, a great striking game and great TDD. Add some gas and better striking defense and Gus wins that fight.
 
fleshcross said:
I'm not sure if chopping at Jones' legs is the key, either. Jones is good at adapting, and the last thing you want is a great mma wrestler with brutal elbows catching your kick and taking you down into his wheelhouse.

Gus DID show exactly what you need to beat Jones, a great striking game and great TDD. Add some gas and better striking defense and Gus wins that fight.
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*Gus won that fight.
 
ItsyBitsySilva said:
I've been watching mma for about seven years and I've helped coach (legitimately, before anyone says that I haven't. It's a little gym where I also learned to box.) anyway, everyone says they figured out how to beat Jones... But I've never seen anyone give the real key to victory.

The answer is simple. It's body punches. Alexander Gustafsson may not have won, but he arguably did best against Jones (the only other person I'd say did well was Machida). He also landed 27 body shots and was constantly threatening. This, combined with his long reach and large stature, allowed him to take down Jones. JBJ tires easily (through damage) but he can take a lot of it. Gustafsson was more resiliant to damage, and though he isn't as skilled as Jones, his intangibles allow him to stay standing and keep fighting through pain. He's kind of like Goku in this way, if you think about it. He takes damage but his ability to fight doesn't fall like Jones' fighting ability did (in that fight).

Anyway, the way to beat Jones is to fatigue him quickly, because when he gets tired, he's much easier to hit.
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Didn't read buttt..... lateral movement and combos off teh jab seems to work the best
 
You were halfway there TS.

Body shots and movement (and TDD).

Gus exposed this. Gus' only downside in that fight was his cardio and that's what did him in. I strongly believe if Gus had 5 round experience, he would have won that fight.
 
SnowBlynd said:
If you look at fights where Jones showed weakness, it was with movement. Machida was able to frustrate Jones in the 1st and gus beat his ass the whole fight by sticking and moving. A lot of opponents become intimidated by the outstretched fingers and just stand there on the outside and pose with him. Bad idea to stand there like a dummy against a guy with crazy reach
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Yes, which Machida and Gus have and use. In the Gus fight Jon couldn't use his oblique kicks very effectively because Gus was moving too much laterally and too quickly, causing Jon to have to turn in his direction and reset. It takes away a useful tool from Jon's range control toolbox if you're fleet of foot enough (Gus having proved this already).

SoberAwakening said:
Again, it's not about Gus vs Condit's style. Not sure how it got stuck on that topic. My point is if you get a long-legged kickboxer in there, he has a good chance of chopping Jones down. Jon isn't used to trying to catch leg kicks. That in itself will mess up his flow in my opinion. The one thing Gus did prove is that once Jon's flow is disrupted, it's hard for him to get back on track. I personally feel had Gus been a little more aggressive and went more for octagon control instead of sticking and moving, that fight would have been his no question. Everyone says to aim for Jon's legs and yet no one implements or even tries to implement that game plan.
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Leg kicks just on their own wouldn't be enough. I'd like to see them used more but only in certain situations, ie., when the fighter is in outer kicking range against Jon and is kicking low (to the shin and just above the kneecap/lower thigh), and when the fighter is pressing forward with offense and ending their attack/combinations with a leg kick to the trailing leg of Jon's that's sticking out there and left behind if he's being moved backwards. Shogun exploited this beautifully against Machida in their first fight. Those would be the optimal scenarios and ways to incorporate them more effectively. As for Gus, yes, he was most successful when he was moving Jon backwards where he was forced to fight off the back foot, which I already mentioned in my first post in this thread. He should've pressured more with combinations and stayed on him more consistently.
 
I think if DC is close enough to land a body shot he's gonna be shooting.. at least for the first few rounds. It's hard to compare Gus's standup and success with that of Cormier. What had Jones in trouble with Gus was somewhat of a boxers "ringmanship" Gus understands the sweet science and footwork to dictate the angles in the standup. I think Cormier's strategy will be nearly completely opposite and try to bully and clinch.
 
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