the real drawback of Cain/Werdum 2 is more top-paralysis...

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Dionysian, Aug 19, 2015.

  1. Dionysian

    Dionysian Silver Belt

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    ... in the division most frozen by top paralysis.

    I see a lot of comparisons to Hendricks-Lawler 3, mostly for the notion that it is an undeserved rematch and that it could be potentially killed by fan discontent. But even more than not deserving the rematch it is bad for the division. If Cain wins we are set up for yet another rematch again while there are viable (and aging/about to leave athletic window of prime) fighters at the top doing nothing in a shallow division/killing off their fellow contenders. If Werdum wins we have one of the top fighters of a shallow division shut out from title fights for the near future, just like JDS was when they rushed rematch after rematch and let the rest of the division fester.

    In terms of a "WTF" reaction this is on par with Hendricks-Lawler 3 but division wise (especially longer term) this matchup is significantly worse.

    AA vs Werdum for title
    Fedor vs Mir for new exciting contender (if we can get Fedor in the UFC of course)
    Cain vs Miocic/Rothwell loser to keep Cain relevant but away from title shot temporarily

    That would be much better for the division... IMO. Then of course JDS/Reem winner and Miocic/Rothwell are new exciting contenders for the title. The problem with HW has been top-paralysis... literally grand total 5 guys have fought in undisputed HW title fights over the course of 4 years (2011 to now = Cain + JDS + Werdum + Bigfoot + Mir). Considering there's 2 guys per fight that is, once removing rematches, coming to just over one fight's worth of fighters for every 2 years of time. So to a division like this, where the lack of contenders (due to contender cannibalism while the same few guys fight over and over and over again) spells the worst possible appearance of how the division overall looks, putting aside the fact that there is close to zero effort to inject new blood into an aging division (which is another topic entirely).
     
  2. mf

    mf Orange Belt

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    Uh.. You make it seem like Lawler v Hendricks 3 was booked. This is the year 2015 btw.
     
  3. Dionysian

    Dionysian Silver Belt

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    4 years after 2011 = 2011 + 4 = 2015
     
  4. ChickenBrother

    ChickenBrother JCPENNEY $3.98 BELT

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    I agree with everything you said TS. Cain does not deserve a rematch based on his performance, and by giving him one, they're actually wasting the potential hype of both fighters. If Cain wins, he's now the twice de-throned champ and also ran. If Werdum wins, he's just beaten the guy he just destroyed so no more marketable, just older.

    They should be hyping Werdum for his next fight with AA/Miocic/Rothwell as the guy who beat BOTH Fedor and Cain. Would sell.
     
  5. spid3yo

    spid3yo Guest

    Your implication that AA would be a better champion for the company over Cain is false.

    Older, not nearly the same draw, very little upside.
     
  6. JosephTessaro

    JosephTessaro Red Belt

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    Personally, I think Cain getting an instant rematch is complete bull shit. Cain got his ass handed to him, the fight was not even close.

    So, if Cain wins, do you think Werdum gets an instant rematch?
     
  7. FlowWithTheGo23

    FlowWithTheGo23 Black Belt

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    It's like anytime a title changes hands it's an automatic one to two year freeze on the division. If the now challenger wins the title back, then it turns into a third fight which sometimes takes like two or three years to finally wrap up.
     
  8. bas gluten

    bas gluten White Belt

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    Heck, Cain has only fought three guys since late 2010. JDS, Bigfoot, and Werdum.

    It will be 2016 before he fights fighter #4.
     
  9. SCTwins

    SCTwins Red Belt

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    They might as well just call it the Cain division. They clearly want him with the belt and nobody else, which is especially odd considering his long periods of inactivity.
     
  10. megamidget

    megamidget Guest

    I don't think either Joe Silva or Dana realize how badly are they clogging the division and wasting away title contenders in pointless fights. Stipe has been screaming for a fight with Werdum or at least Cain for the past 3 months, Arlovski fucking deserves it more than anyone at the moment and they decide to blue ball both guys and give the title shot to Cain. Again. Fuck this shit.
     
  11. SchlomoS

    SchlomoS Purple Belt

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    lawler vs Hendricks would have had the same impact as Cain v Werdum II;

    recycling the same guys at the top made the divisions very stagnate at the top, especially in earlier UFC's. There were like 4 guys at WW, they just kept throwing everyone who could have been an interesting fight for GSP at Fitch. They are alot better now, but for some reason they've been obssessed with rematches.

    When Hendricks lost, he should have gone to the back of the line, and gave some up and comers a chance, not guys knocking at the door of the top 5. so even if those guys lost, their stocks raise. having a title contender lose and then start booking them against top 5 guys after the loss, to me i can't understand that. When Mendes lost to Aldo then fought Lamas. Both of those guys should have been fighting at the back of the line, disregarding the rankings.
     
  12. Dionysian

    Dionysian Silver Belt

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    You misread me here, I never tried to imply that (nor do I think that, nor do I think he'd beat Werdum now). I said AA vs Werdum is a better title fight.

    Because it isn't an insta-rematch, doesn't clog the division, doesn't put either Cain or Werdum into limbo, has a better narrative, is more interesting stylistically, introduces new fighters into the title picture, etc. Wouldn't be surprised if it did better PPV numbers either considering Werdum-Cain 2 is a do-over of a fight we just recently watched.
     
  13. Scamrock

    Scamrock Black Belt

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    I would have preferred someone else, but it's not that big of a deal to me.

    1. Even if I don't like the matchup relevant to the title picture and who deserves what, I like the fight in and of itself. How much did the altitude and the layoff effect Cain's performance vs. how much was Werdum just the better fighter. Let's find out. I'd like to see them fight again.

    2. Champions fight so infrequently as it is. But even if they are active, it's only a few fights each year out of hundreds. There are so many good fights that can be made even if the title is in limbo. Too often, I have seen people discouraging a good matchup because they are afraid to knock off a potential title challenger. Rumble/Gustafsson was a perfect example. They were the two best available fighters. I wanted to see them fight. But rather than looking for the best fight for each guy (which was each other), many people would rather give them squash matches to maximize title challengers. They both ended up getting a title shot anyways.

    3. JDS/Overeem, Arlovski/Mir, and Miocic/Rothwell are all viable options to produce a title challenger. If Werdum wins, any of the winners would be fine. If Velasquez wins, pretty much anyone other than JDS will be fine. If they give Werdum an immediate rematch, you pair off two of the winners in a title elimination, two of the losers in a fight, and a winner against a loser. You get a whole new series of good fights from viable contenders. Sure, it removes Velasquez and Werdum from the mix for a while. But it doesn't make the division stale. For the first time in a long time, there is plenty to be excited about at the top of the division.

    So, forgive me for not being as discouraged as everyone else. It isn't my first choice. But I knew it was a possibility, and I'm fine with it.
     

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