The Quintessential Discipulus Training Thread (Critique Please!)

[Discipulus]

Equipped with a new heavy bag, pair of gloves, and some slick new Chucks, I decided to take a little footage of me working my boxing. I did one round of the tile exercise, and then three rounds of bagwork.

I can see that my leaning is much better, though I do appear to be pushing too hard off the back foot at a couple points. I also feel that I'm not moving around the bag enough, so any tips on how to improve that would be great. I just don't see how I'm supposed to move when the bag's coming at me, so I end up over-thinking it and just backing up or hitting instead of moving. And when I do find an angle, I don't think I hit soon or frequently enough.

Other than that, please tell me what you see, and I'll make this my go-to training thread until it reaches that venerable 1000 posts. I'm not quite as argumentative as Nuke, so it might take a wee bit longer to get there. :wink:

Also, please praise the wonderful improvements in my left hook that have happened over the past week. Heheh.

 

[SummerStriker]

Dem Chucks are hot.

 

[Discipulus]

Word is bond, son.

 

[sourdiesel209]

thats a nice bag man, perfect for uppercuting the shit out of it... on a regular heavy bag it feels weird connecting the punch with the main knuckles... but on that one the angle is just right..

I'd like to see more combos to the body, you could go crazy with those on that bag..

 

[Discipulus]

thats a nice bag man, perfect for uppercuting the shit out of it... on a regular heavy bag it feels weird connecting the punch with the main knuckles... but on that one the angle is just right..

I'd like to see more combos to the body, you could go crazy with those on that bag..

Yeah, I'm gonna add a few extra links or a strong carabiner to the chain and hang it a bit lower for that. As it hangs now, I think it's just a bit too high for practicing proper body shots.

 

[Nuclearlandmine]

Equipped with a new heavy bag, pair of gloves, and some slick new Chucks, I decided to take a little footage of me working my boxing. I did one round of the tile exercise, and then three rounds of bagwork.

I can see that my leaning is much better, though I do appear to be pushing too hard off the back foot at a couple points. I also feel that I'm not moving around the bag enough, so any tips on how to improve that would be great. I just don't see how I'm supposed to move when the bag's coming at me, so I end up over-thinking it and just backing up or hitting instead of moving. And when I do find an angle, I don't think I hit soon or frequently enough.

Other than that, please tell me what you see, and I'll make this my go-to training thread until it reaches that venerable 1000 posts. I'm not quite as easily trolled as Nuke, so it might take a wee bit longer to get there. :wink:

Also, please praise the wonderful improvements in my left hook that have happened over the past week. Heheh.

Fixed.

As for the movement around the bag, i think you should make it an objective next time you work it. Just 1 or 1-2 to get the bag to swing, then move. Or just isolate the movement part like pushing the bag around and just move, dip, pivot as it is swinging. I think it is because you are not used to the bag's swing much, but with more work i'm sure you can move around and hit it much better.

 

[peanut66]

hey"discipulus" ,

looking better , starting to flow better now , acouple points and training tips for you if you are interested.

1 ; to help your movement and footwork (which is very flat and rooted ) what i do is every 3rd round of hitting the bag i wont allow my heels to touch the floor and try to do a happy feet round , which means constantly moving forward , backwards , latterally , all the time on my toes without letting my heels touch the floor and keeping my knees limber , killer on the calves , and throw 3 - 5 punch combos in and out .

2; it seems that after you throw your cross , mentally you reset , like that was the finale , change up your combos and or add something to them so that the big cross isnt the end eg ; cross / hook / cross , and jab out , or jab / cross / liver / hook ,


other than i feel you are thinking way too much about proper technique and not letting muscle memory take over , i think you are progressing very well .

just my opinion

 

[sourdiesel209]

Yeah, I'm gonna add a few extra links or a strong carabiner to the chain and hang it a bit lower for that. As it hangs now, I think it's just a bit too high for practicing proper body shots.

yeah I was gonna say you should hang it just a lil bit lower.. right now its like an uppercut to the face... then you can add knees also..

also, you have a really nice space there to practice some footwork back and forth, throwing combos going in and out, then side stepping to the sides.. I wish I had some space like that around my heavy bag... I can only practice standing combos and barely some kicks

I dunno if this is what peanut is talking about, but at the gym they make us reset every once in a while to this bouncing back and forth on your toes...its like resting for a boxer, so that you stay on the move... just to reset after a combo.. and play with the distance.. hope that makes any sense lol

 

[Discipulus]

Fixed.

As for the movement around the bag, i think you should make it an objective next time you work it. Just 1 or 1-2 to get the bag to swing, then move. Or just isolate the movement part like pushing the bag around and just move, dip, pivot as it is swinging. I think it is because you are not used to the bag's swing much, but with more work i'm sure you can move around and hit it much better.

Haha!

Yeah, that's a good suggestion, using the 1-2 to get the bag moving. I really want to be more comfortable with my footwork and finding angles. I guess I've been so caught up in not leaning lately that I suddenly feel like I don't know how to move around at the same time. I need to set my damn double end bag up, too.

hey"discipulus" ,

looking better , starting to flow better now , acouple points and training tips for you if you are interested.

1 ; to help your movement and footwork (which is very flat and rooted ) what i do is every 3rd round of hitting the bag i wont allow my heels to touch the floor and try to do a happy feet round , which means constantly moving forward , backwards , latterally , all the time on my toes without letting my heels touch the floor and keeping my knees limber , killer on the calves , and throw 3 - 5 punch combos in and out .

2; it seems that after you throw your cross , mentally you reset , like that was the finale , change up your combos and or add something to them so that the big cross isnt the end eg ; cross / hook / cross , and jab out , or jab / cross / liver / hook ,


other than i feel you are thinking way too much about proper technique and not letting muscle memory take over , i think you are progressing very well .

just my opinion

I agree with you on the thinking about technique aspect, except that I really want to make sure I get things down slowly before I try to pick it up. My problem in the past has been that I don't have the muscle memory to let it take over. But I do think I overthink it when I'm hitting the bag, for sure. I'll have to take some time to get used to using this one, as well, though I'm loving it so far. This is a fun bag to throw hooks and uppercuts at.

And I think you're right about the cross. I need to end more combinations with the hook and jab. Jabbing out used to be something I tried to focus on, but it seems to have fallen out of practice. Thanks for that.

And this was supposed to be "happy feet" bagwork. :icon_chee I want to emulate the kind of bagwork I've seen Sinister have his guys do on their small heavy bag with this bag. Using it's swinging characteristics to practice never backing straight out, but always angling off and continuing to attack. It'll just take some time to build up to that, probably.

yeah I was gonna say you should hang it just a lil bit lower.. right now its like an uppercut to the face... then you can add knees also..

also, you have a really nice space there to practice some footwork back and forth, throwing combos going in and out, then side stepping to the sides.. I wish I had some space like that around my heavy bag... I can only practice standing combos and barely some kicks

I dunno if this is what peanut is talking about, but at the gym they make us reset every once in a while to this bouncing back and forth on your toes...its like resting for a boxer, so that you stay on the move... just to reset after a combo.. and play with the distance.. hope that makes any sense lol

Yeah, it is a nice, fairly open area, though I'd certainly like to clean out the garage sometime soon so I have space all around the bag to move. In fact, it'd be nice if I could get a sort of tight space between the bag and the wall there, to practice escaping from against the ropes.

I try not to bounce too much, especially because, as a big, unathletic mope, I've got pretty poor balance already.

 

[Bennosuke]

I want to second what Peanut said about your cross. Furthermore, you drop the rear hand after the cross pretty much every time you throw it, without bringing the other hand up. Maybe this is intentional, but it would seem dangerous to me to have both hands down and your weight forward at the end of every combo that finishes with a cross.

I would recommend making an effort to bring the rear hand straight back immediately after every cross, rather than swimming with it.

 

[Sinister]

hey"discipulus" ,

looking better , starting to flow better now , acouple points and training tips for you if you are interested.

1 ; to help your movement and footwork (which is very flat and rooted ) what i do is every 3rd round of hitting the bag i wont allow my heels to touch the floor and try to do a happy feet round , which means constantly moving forward , backwards , latterally , all the time on my toes without letting my heels touch the floor and keeping my knees limber , killer on the calves , and throw 3 - 5 punch combos in and out .

The type of footwork he's utilizing moves heel-toe and toe-heel, not toe-toe-toe-toe.

That heels should never be down is a myth in Boxing.

 

[Marbig]

That heels should never be down is a myth in Boxing.

Elaborate pleaes? My coach always tells me otherwise cos he says that, should both heels be up off the ground, we can move faster.

 

[peanut66]

The type of footwork he's utilizing moves heel-toe and toe-heel, not toe-toe-toe-toe.

That heels should never be down is a myth in Boxing.

i was describing a tool we use to get guys moving more limber and create a good bounce in thier steps , similar to jumping rope ,

im not saying he has to spar with his heels off the floor , just toss in a few rounds with the heels off the floor as a priority , personally i think that is missing in his game (fluidity in his movements )

 

[Discipulus]

Elaborate pleaes? My coach always tells me otherwise cos he says that, should both heels be up off the ground, we can move faster.

It's certainly a trade-off for stability and balance, though, and balance is just as important in boxing as speed. So there are of course times when it stands to reason that you should not be dragging your heels, and I suspect that's what peanut is trying to help me with. But I believe Sinister is saying that it is a fallacy that your heels should never be down. Sometimes you need to plant your feet, and the action of rocking from toe to heel or heel to toe seems to help with weight transfer, and the action of sitting into hard punches. Next time you throw a left hook or jab, try to plant your weight back into your rear heel. You'll feel a difference in pop, I'll wager.

 

[Nuclearlandmine]

It's certainly a trade-off for stability and balance, though, and balance is just as important in boxing as speed. So there are of course times when it stands to reason that you should not be dragging your heels, and I suspect that's what peanut is trying to help me with. But I believe Sinister is saying that it is a fallacy that your heels should never be down. Sometimes you need to plant your feet, and the action of rocking from toe to heel or heel to toe seems to help with weight transfer, and the action of sitting into hard punches. Next time you throw a left hook or jab, try to plant your weight back into your rear heel. You'll feel a difference in pop, I'll wager.

That. Although i suspected it is also a stylistic question too since some guys like to be rooted to the earth like Joe Louis to sit down on their punches more, or Willie Pep who on his toe more since his style is really about stick and move.

On a side note about it, apparently i just realized today one of the lingering problem i still have with my weight floating up and straighten my leg while punching is because i tried to be "light" on my feet with my weight on my toe instead of having the heel-toe to toe-heel. Which funnily enough, answered one of my question about how people often told me to be "light" on my feet while Sinister never told me to do it

 

[ssullivan80]

The type of footwork he's utilizing moves heel-toe and toe-heel, not toe-toe-toe-toe.

That heels should never be down is a myth in Boxing.

This is another principle that correlates into the internal vs. external rotation methodology....... correct? (yes, I am still fixated on this concept). I've found that the most effective way to build combinations transferring from internal - external is to simply drop the heel down, anchor it......... eh,


TS: I do wan't to come back to comment on your work. Looking good, I really like your cross to lead UC transition.......

 

[Sinister]

Elaborate pleaes? My coach always tells me otherwise cos he says that, should both heels be up off the ground, we can move faster.

Sully has one of the ideas correct in his post below, and I'm about to add more in my reply to it.

This is another principle that correlates into the internal vs. external rotation methodology....... correct? (yes, I am still fixated on this concept). I've found that the most effective way to build combinations transferring from internal - external is to simply drop the heel down, anchor it......... eh,

TS: I do wan't to come back to comment on your work. Looking good, I really like your cross to lead UC transition.......

Anchoring is correct, anchoring for any reason. But it does assist in hip-rotation. It's also one of the keys to balance, and avoiding leaning. When a guy is on his toes for very long and his stabilizer muscles begin to fatigue, he's going to be very likely to begin leaning forward. That same feeling of leaning forward you get when you look over a high ledge, or look down a hole, or look down period. This, especially, if your opponent is slightly lower than you are. Even if you're bouncing around, now you're relying on athleticism and conditioning to get you out of trouble if it occurs to your opponent that you're face is closer to him than your feet are. What that means is defense is compromised, and this is because both positioning and distance are compromised.

When you put the heel down, now you'll feel as if you're falling back, which is they key to maintaining distance. Being back, but the heel down will allow for you to not actually fall. As you said, it'll anchor.

 

[Discipulus]

Makes sense.

Thanks, Sully. I'm looking forward to your comments. I don't have any time tonight, as I'm pretty beat from BJJ, but I'll post up some more boxing footage in here at the start of next week. Hopefully with daylight present.

 

[Discipulus]

Did some tile exercise and boxing on the Body Snatcher tonight. Felt kind of awkward for some reason. Let me know if that comes across in the footage. Maybe because the tile drill burned my legs out faster than usual. Looks like rest and food for the rest of the night, and we'll see how I feel at Muay Thai tomorrow.

 

[DoctorTaco]

every once ina while, you throw a small pump or feint before your jab fires off. relax a little more and try to "sit down" on your cross to generate more power. you're turning your hips over but not engaging your legs with the "push" motion.

that's all I've really got- this style of boxing is pretty foriegn to me.
















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