The problem is JDS' Conditioning

[iLesnar]

JDD is doing the wrong type of conditioning. He is using a very comfortable pace in his gym, doing alot of the things that he's not going to use against Cain.

I am going to explain what happened to JDS in the last 2 fights in this little example.

I work out alot, I do alot of weights, and I walk 30 minutes on the treadmill at 6 speed and run 30 minutes on 3-9 speed. About 5 or 6 days a week.

I don't ever get tired in that 1 hour of cardio.

Every month however, the boys throw a game of basketball, and I find myself grasping for air in about 3 minutes at best.

In basketball, you are using your senses, you are sprinting and pausing so often, your breathing is not constant, you are emotional, and at last, you are not used to it.

Cain does what he did last night daily in the gym. Everyday in the gym he's going over 25 minutes of non-stop pressure. JDS isn't. He dropped a hint in the post-fight interview how nice it must be to have DC by your side.

JDS is probably doing cardio, training TDD, doing boxing, working off his back, ALL AT A COMFORTABLE pace.

You can do 15 minutes of cardio (stand-up with Hunt) and not be tired one bit, but play basketball (grapple war with Cain) and you're going to be tired.

You'd all be lying if you say that you didn't notice JDS' breathing change right in that 1st minute. He's emotional, he knows he needs to get that KO, he knows what's coming, he's throwing wild shots, he's moving back, he's trying to defend takedowns, and he still has to get that one shot it.

Peace

 

[36thDisciple]

Not a bad analysis. Likely true.

 

[pecho26]

There is not a s&c guy on this world that is gonna make him have similar cardio as cain.Cain is a freak.
Different camp and different sparring partners?
Yes. he needs to get out of his comfort zone,and with better coaches.

 

[fightdonttweet]

Lucky for JDS, no one else brings that kind of pressure except Cain.

 

[BlastoiseDad]

Great post Ts.

 

[JoeHoganKush**]

Doubt conditioning is a problem. JDS was swinging for the fences into the 5th round with plenty of power behind them. If he's able to do that then he still has pretty good conditioning.

 

[UL]

His camp is awesome for when he is fighting a striker but Cain is something else.

If he ever has a rematch he should go to Greg jackson.

AKA vs

 

[Bulsebub**]

JDS looked fine until he got knocked down again, that will take alot of energy out of you and not only that, he does not put his hands up when he is hurt, he tries to bob and weave when he can

 

[tombombadil]

JDS is in great shape, Cain is just fitter.

You are right about intensity of training vs duration, though. And JDS has the willpower to achieve Cain's conditioning level, if he had someone like Cain to train with..... but that person may not exist. He will need to have several good wrestling teammates that can pressure like Cain for a couple of minutes, and keep switching them out.

 

[bushidoman]

People don't realize how much the genetic component plays into cardio. I'm turning 40 in a few months and I can still wear out 25 year olds who play all the time on the basketball court. I hardly ever play basketball and so my shot, dribbling and skills suck. However, the person guarding me always gets tired because I can sprint down court every single time at full speed. And my defense is awesome because I'm all over the guy every time and can sprint to the ball, etc etc.

I had similar experiences when I used to play high school football. I used to take this cardio for granted when I was young because I didn't realize it was something I was born with. I thought it was something anyone could develop to that degree. Not true.

At any rate, back to Cain and JDS. Cain has cardio that is out of this world. Way off the spectrum. He will push the pace and wear out any HW. And I'm sure JDS doesn't train at a comfortable pace 100% of the time in the gym. Give JDS and his trainers some credit. They're not stupid.

 

[DhalpsdaDocta]

you make terrible assumptions to how you think JDS is training..I doubt he trains comfortably, doing boxing, fighting off his back, etc...Some people are just prone to having great conditioning...Im sure JDS busts his ass, worked a ton on wrestling, and conditioning knowing he was in a 5 round fight...Wrestling and throwing big punches is very tiring...this is what happened to JDS

 

[iLesnar]

Doubt conditioning is a problem. JDS was swinging for the fences into the 5th round with plenty of power behind them. If he's able to do that then he still has pretty good conditioning.

Don't be a YES man. Acknowledge the problem.

Just because he's throwing a bomb here and there doesn't mean he's alright. He looked far from alright.

If he had a legit cardio tank, he would have enough to think, not only throw a bomb here and there. He would still be alert to circle and push the pace on Cain himself and not coast through till the end.

His hands are low, trying to catch a breather so he can throw a punch, and he's using his gas to try and defend. We need to have more cardio, to do all that, AND BRING THE OFFENSE.

 

[86'd]

Nope. JDS's problem is the same as a lot of strikers when facing a grappler.

If you're facing a superior wrestler, you absolutely cannot settle for keeping your back against the cage. You have to find a way to keep the fight in the center of the octagon. JDS fought Cain's fight again by not being able to fight backwards effectively. He could have dictated the pace if he had superior lateral movement and kept the fight in the center of the octagon instead of being FORCED to fight at Cain's pace against the cage.

How many strikers have went down to grapplers by keeping their backs to the cage. Melvin Manhoef/Tim Kennedy, Couture/Liddell 1, Vitor/Couture 3, Lawler/Jacare or Kennedy. etc. etc. etc.

 

[iLesnar]

you make terrible assumptions to how you think JDS is training..I doubt he trains comfortably, doing boxing, fighting off his back, etc...Some people are just prone to having great conditioning...Im sure JDS busts his ass, worked a ton on wrestling, and conditioning knowing he was in a 5 round fight...Wrestling and throwing big punches is very tiring...this is what happened to JDS

I would agree with you if he started having cardio issues in 2 or 3 rounds, but in the first minute?

It's obvious he was out of his element.

That's my point to the thread. Bring someone out of his element and he gasses much much quicker.

 

[tombombadil]

JDS looked fine until he got knocked down again, that will take alot of energy out of you and not only that, he does not put his hands up when he is hurt, he tries to bob and weave when he can

 

[tombombadil]

Nope. JDS's problem is the same as a lot of strikers when facing a grappler.

If you're facing a superior wrestler, you absolutely cannot settle for keeping your back against the cage. You have to find a way to keep the fight in the center of the octagon. JDS fought Cain's fight again by not being able to fight backwards effectively. He could have dictated the pace if he had superior lateral movement and kept the fight in the center of the octagon instead of being FORCED to fight at Cain's pace against the cage.

How many strikers have went down to grapplers by keeping their backs to the cage. Melvin Manhoef/Tim Kennedy, Couture/Liddell 1, Vitor/Couture 3, Lawler/Jacare or Kennedy. etc. etc. etc.

good point.

 

[Gutbop]

It's moreso the getting punched in the face repeatedly that destroys your cardio. Do a conditioning drill. Do the same drill after getting punched in the face 10 times. You will surely slow down. Part of that is also due to losing blood. When you lose blood, you lose oxygen.

 

[iLesnar]

Nope. JDS's problem is the same as a lot of strikers when facing a grappler.

If you're facing a superior wrestler, you absolutely cannot settle for keeping your back against the cage. You have to find a way to keep the fight in the center of the octagon. JDS fought Cain's fight again by not being able to fight backwards effectively.

How many strikers have went down to grapplers by keeping their backs to the cage. Melvin Manhoef/Tim Kennedy, Couture/Liddell 1, Vitor/Couture 3, Lawler/Jacare or Kennedy. etc. etc. etc.

And why do you think he wasn't able to keep his back off the cage? BECAUSE he's tired.

Always take the first 2 minutes of the fight to judge. In the first couple minutes, he was doing it right, circling, throwing bombs, defending takedowns, and getting back to the middle.

Its because his blood was flowing right, no cardio issues, so he was fully aware. That's the difference.

Once you start lacking oxygen, you're not fully aware anymore, you're doing the wrong things, soon you're folding and you're coasting through.

 

[Hotei]

Agree.
people prasing Cain's cardio are missing the point in my opinion...JDS changed his pace after 1 minute, that's mostly on him.

 

[DrHouse]

Not that I disagree with you, I just question how good can a 240 pound man's cardio can be considering what was happening to him. I know Cain weighs 240 as well, but it's gotta be tougher being the nail than the hammer.

On the other hand though, I see where you're coming from and I have to agree for the most part. I know the Primetime isn't showcasing all of Junior's camp, but it's gotta represent a little of what was going on. Not a single guy pressuring Junior, working him against the fence, constantly going for takedowns. No one that Junior is training with is good enough or even big enough to come close to emulating what Cain did for 10 rounds.