The people who think coke isn't a PED

[skombolis]

Thanks.

No problem

 

[pv3Hpv3p]

So you think coke is a steroid???????

Coke only alters someone's performance during the duration where they are high. And that is why the commission doesn't count it unless it is after the fight.

No, I'm saying that drugs can be considered beneficial even if you don't take them right before you compete

 

[Deleroux]

Well I can't talk about anyone else s experiences but my own and what i've seen but when me and my friend would start doing bench on coke our hearts would beat through the god damn roof so we'd usually stop.

This is generally only an issue for newer/inexperienced users. Habitual users wouldn't really have this issue--they'd be used to it. Also, habitual users will have a higher tolerance. The only way habitual users would ever be fazed by what you're describing is if they were also using hard downers at the same time.

 

[BullyKutta]

First of all. Have you ever done any kind of striking or grappling training? Or have worked out doing circuit exercises or distance running? Well I have. And well I'm not proud of it I've done a few piles of coke in my day too. I can't see what advantages that combining blow and doing these activities would have.

If you're in a bar and you're about to get into a fist fight at 2:00am with some local tough guy, I would call coke a ped.

Second of all it's not like Jones did a big Hollywood in the locker room during his pre-fight warm-up. He was pissed hot Dec. 4 on accounts of a random drug test.

To answer your first question, yes. I am a member of my local boxing gym. 3 days a week with physical conditioning as well as sparring/mitt-work.

Have I used it in this particular gym? No. But I related my experience above and I should have put an addendum in there.

I took a bag of it with me during a 7 mile run/exercise trail (this was 10 years ago). I not only shattered my own circuit time, but was able to do a significantly higher amount of upper body work in the process. Not because the drug raised my heart rate, or gave me super human strength, but because the numbing effect of it shut down my body's natural signalling system to tell me to slow the F down.

The next day, I woke up with severe pain and ended up having to take muscle relaxants and Vicodin to ease the various muscle pulls I managed. I was young and very stupid.

I did it a few more times afterward, but haven't touched the shit in a decade.

I realize my experience is purely anecdotal, but cocaine's effect on performance has A LOT to do with the quality of the stuff you get. Most people who complain about the jitteryness of the drug are talking about the godawful substances that street cocaine gets cuts with (low grade speed/powdered milk).

 

[Formwork]

If you are addicted to cocaine to the point of needing rehab, this is a drug you rely on, why wouldn't you do it in competition? where it is absolutely is a PED. Not like he couldn't find a way to pull it off. Jones credibility as a great competitor is absolutely in quetion.

 

[Toxxus]

I'm staggered by the number of idiots who think he was doing it right before the fight or during press week.

He got busted on December 4th - a full month before the fight and then tested CLEAN after the fight.

It's not rocket surgery folks.

 

[devilfisted]

I've already seen a few threads saying "wait, coke is OK but weed isn't?" or "Diaz gets suspended for a year for weed and Jones does coke and gets nothing?"

OK I'm not sure if these threads are serious, maybe they're people just playing around, but if they are and for anyone else similarly confused this thread is for you.

First, there's a difference between in competition testing (that is, the drug tests you take immediately after your fight) and out of competition testing (the tests you take in the weeks/months leading up to an announced fight.)

Both coke and weed are banned substances in an in-competition test. Neither coke nor weed is banned in an out of competition test.

Jones tested positive for coke metabolites in an out of competition test. Diaz tested positive for weed metabolites in an in-competition test.

I will note that the weed rules have changed, and the threshold for a positive test is MUCH higher now than it was when Diaz got popped. It's high enough so that you'd have to be high or have just smoked mere hours before your fight to test positive now. Diaz's positive test probably would've come back negative today. It's unfortunate that he and many others were punished for a drug metabolite that didn't have any influence on the fight, but at least that flaw in the rules is fixed. Diaz also got a higher suspension because it was his second offense.

So that's the difference between coke and weed (TL;DR, there basically isn't any) and that's why Diaz got suspended and Jones didn't.

The UFC can and has given suspensions/fines for their fighter conduct code it is bullshit Jones is off the hook with nothing it was anyone else the UFC would have dumped them and quick.

 

[killakillakilla]

So if you crashed hard for a day = 1 training session ruined

Do you really think the next day (after a day you spent 'crashing hard') you are at 100%? Of course not = 2nd training session where the tradeoff was a negative one

And what would it help anyone for in MMA training? Maybe lifting I could see someone doing it. And it wouldn't provide any long-term benefit for fighting as far as a PED. But it will run your overall health down

Give me two equal athletes where one trains clean and the other trains using coke regularly and I will bet the house on the first guy every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

i said i would only crash that hard if i went on a 1 or 2 week binger (binger meaning that I didn't stop snorting coke for a straight week or two). Snorting coke during a workout never made me crash that hard. Any crash would usually be over after sleeping a bit.

if crashing from coke was as bad as you assume, people wouldn't snort it. Anyways, I'm done talking about my past habits. But from my experience, coke definitely helped me workout more intensely.

 

[SherdogFan23]

No, I'm saying that drugs can be considered beneficial even if you don't take them right before you compete

Beneficial for fight training?

 

[Deleted member 453401]

This. The rehab is just an attempt to portray himself as a sympathetic lost soul rather than a party boy.
And I know everyone in here has a phd and all, but can someone actually cite a good source explaining the effect cocaine would have on someone in and out of the cage and how it might affect their performance? I am curious about this.

Found this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2657493/

Spoiler

Cocaine in sport

Despite the popular myth, cocaine does not really enhance performance, whether in the job, in sports, at school, or during sex. On the contrary, long term use can lead to loss of concentration, irritability, loss of memory, paranoia, loss of energy, anxiety, and a loss of interest in sex. In particular, several studies have shown that cocaine has no beneficial effect on running times and reduces endurance performance. Furthermore, at all doses, cocaine significantly increases glycogen degradation while increasing plasma lactate concentration without producing consistent changes in plasma catecholamine levels. The controlling effect of cocaine on an addict's life can lead to exclusion of all other facets of life. Nevertheless, despite these apparently detrimental effects, cocaine continues to be misused in sport. It may be that cocaine only affects activities of short duration requiring a burst of high intensity energy output. It is possible that the central nervous stimulatory effect may be more important than its action on peripheral metabolism. It has been suggested that athletes are drawn to cocaine because of the effects of heightened arousal and increased alertness, achieved principally at low doses.


Side effects of cocaine in relation to sport
A number of dramatic fatalities associated with coronary occlusion have occurred in athletes misusing cocaine, usually those who have been exercising intensely following drug administration. Many sportspeople who misuse cocaine complain of negative central effects such as perceptual misjudgments and time disorientation that sometime reduce their athletic performance. Furthermore, cocaine addicts frequently turn to other drugs to relieve the down feeling when more cocaine is not available. When used together, these drugs and cocaine can prove even more deadly than when used alone. Some fatalities have also occurred when cocaine misuse has been mixed with alcohol or anabolic steroids. The joint misuse of alcohol and cocaine is extremely cardiotoxic. These practices increase the risk of sudden death by cardiac arrest or seizures followed by respiratory arrest.

 

[Lead]

Yes it is banned, just not for out of competition, if his most recent test comes up positive (the in-competition test which was taken fight night or night prior), then he is stripped of belt, win becomes NC, and he's suspended from fighting.


Saying it's not banned as a flat statement is wrong. It is banned.

Lol, it isn't wrong and you just proved his point. It's banned in competition. This was out of competition. That's why he wasn't stripped of the belt, still won and isn't suspended.

 

[Toxxus]

If you are addicted to cocaine to the point of needing rehab, this is a drug you rely on, why wouldn't you do it in competition? where it is absolutely is a PED. Not like he couldn't find a way to pull it off. Jones credibility as a great competitor is absolutely in quetion.

So your premise is he failed a random test for it, but somehow, after they knew he had used the stuff passed the test after the fight?

Think again or at all.

 

[Jin Akutsu]

Also, people should look at baseball as a great historical look into athletics and cocaine.

The Pittsburgh Cocaine Seven: How a Ragtag Group of Fans Took the Fall for Major League Baseball

 

[CombatCyborg]

Huge Jones fan here..
Cocaine IS , and has always been performance enhancing for a pro athlete. It is as effective if not more than roids.

If you don't think it's a PED, you're a massive dork who needs to get their head out of their asses.

LOL what?

Coke would have improved his focus and confidence. Not a huge benefit. I don't know how it affects muscular performance (like caffeine) or cardio.

 

[killakillakilla]

I'm staggered by the number of idiots who think he was doing it right before the fight or during press week.

He got busted on December 4th - a full month before the fight and then tested CLEAN after the fight.

It's not rocket surgery folks.

that means he was right in the thick of his training camp when he got busted for coke and it only takes 2 days to clear coke from your body.

rocket surgery? i think you mean rocket science.

 

[skombolis]

This is generally only an issue for newer/inexperienced users. Habitual users wouldn't really have this issue--they'd be used to it. Also, habitual users will have a higher tolerance. The only way habitual users would ever be fazed by what you're describing is if they were also using hard downers at the same time.

I don't care how long someone has been using, if it is pure enough, it is having that effect. Your heart never gets used to being accelerated way faster than it should be. The mental 'freak-outs' from the effect don't affect regular users. But if you are doing good coke, you don't just casually have a normal weigh-lifting workout. Now if the stuff isn't that good and is basically like snorting a ritalin or doing a handful of energy tablets than sure. In fact, the latter me and my buds did all the time to work out. But good coke? No way

 

[Oedad]

Back in the early 1900s Tour de France riders would snort coke on the course

 

[xtramob]

I'm staggered by the number of idiots who think he was doing it right before the fight or during press week.

He got busted on December 4th - a full month before the fight and then tested CLEAN after the fight.

It's not rocket surgery folks.

Part of your story is correct but the results for fight week aren't in just yet. Should check all your facts before calling people idiots.

 

[devilfisted]

I'm staggered by the number of idiots who think he was doing it right before the fight or during press week.

He got busted on December 4th - a full month before the fight and then tested CLEAN after the fight.

It's not rocket surgery folks.

I am staggered by the number of idiots who forget that the UFC has their fighter conduct code. They have fired or suspended guys for less. We are asking for consistency here.

 

[Cazador]

I better ask that to a doctor, with the amount of Jones haters around I got the feeling I wouldn't get a reliable answer.