The people who think coke isn't a PED

Standardb said:
Source?

because from what I understand cocaine can actually be lethal when exercising (it increases your heart rate and so does training..it strains the heart)
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This. Your heart would explode training for a fight while high. It's a party drug and nothing more.
 
JayElectra said:
I think cocaine would do far more harm than good for training. The majority of the studies on it show that its benefits are more psychological than physical and that many of the physical effects are capable of being very detrimental especially in endurance activities. That said, the psychological benefits are real and that's why it's banned in competition. Out of competition it will harm you more than it will help. In a grueling 25 minute fight like the one Jones just went through, it could be disastrously detrimental considering it's effects on heart rate and heat retention.
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This.

TS, your premise would make sense if you were comparing cocaine to something like prednisone. That's what you were doing, right? You weren't... you know... actually comparing cocaine to anabolic steroids, since making that comparison would be exceedingly ignorant.
 
explain to me why ben cousins, an endurance athlete in an endurance sport, took cocaine regularly for years and was fitter than 99% of the league. why didn't his "heart explode"?
 
Cocaine is absolutely in the PED category. If you don't believe this you've either:

1. Never done it.

2. Only done cocaine that's been severely stepped on.

Let's ignore the fact that it basically overclocks your body's natural functions and increases alertness, the shit was used as an ANAESTHETIC to numb pain back in the early 20th century. If you ingest enough high grade coke, you'll be astonished at how high your pain tolerance suddenly goes.

And let's not forget the anecdotal evidence of other fighters who've used it and seemingly been unstoppable.

If Jones has been using right before fights, then he should be stripped of the belt.

Shame on the UFC for not having a stronger stance on this as well. He popped dirty a fucking month before the fight. Despicable.
 
It's good for pain numbing and a burst of energy, but damn stupid in the context of a 25 minute MMA fight. Coming off coke would suck and the increased heart rate is undesirable. He undoubtedly did coke because he has a substance abuse problem (don't forget the DUI).

He didn't test positive before and after the Cormier fight, so this doesn't count towards stripping his title. Just have to wait this out and see him train again after the treatment program is done.
 
Amygdala said:
Just ask Panama Lewis.
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I doubt it was cocaine in Pryor's bottle. Ingesting cocaine would be too slow acting to have any immediate impact. It also doesn't really have much impact unless it's taken with a fairly alkaline substance because of the stomach acids render the cocaine inactive. It's just highly unlikely that it was cocaine and probably unlikely that anything Pryor ingested through the special water bottle could have an immediate impact (although, I have heard that Lewis was giving Pryor the water bottle earlier in the fight and it's entirely possible for Pryor to have taken something before the fight).
 
Did they test him after the fight? I want to see those results.
 
Standardb said:
Source?

because from what I understand cocaine can actually be lethal when exercising (it increases your heart rate and so does training..it strains the heart)
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It can be as it is a stimulant vasoconstrictor but top-level athletes still risk it anyway.

Tyson used to fight on coke.
 
JayElectra said:
I doubt it was cocaine in Pryor's bottle. Ingesting cocaine would be too slow acting to have any immediate impact. It also doesn't really have much impact unless it's taken with a fairly alkaline substance because of the stomach acids render the cocaine inactive. It's just highly unlikely that it was cocaine and probably unlikely that anything Pryor ingested through the special water bottle could have an immediate impact (although, I have heard that Lewis was giving Pryor the water bottle earlier in the fight and it's entirely possible for Pryor to have taken something before the fight).
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I know, I know. Just wanted to make the reference to find some old heads out there. Arguello and Hawk were no stranger to the yayo, though.
 
It can contribute to numbing. That's why people who use it tend rub it on their gums--it causes an immediate, pleasant, lasting numbing sensation. Standard use tends to dull pains/aches throughout the body as well, though to a somewhat lesser degree than direct local contact/absorption. And yes, it also can give you quite a bit of excess energy (and thus potential output) which obviously scales with dosage. The crash can be pretty hard though if you use a lot at a time, but this can be mitigated by consistent dosing.

The thing about cocaine is it doesn't stay in your system for that long--a couple of days, typically. So if he tested positive, he would have been using rather recently. It's not like cannabis where it can stay in your system for up to a month (or even longer in some cases) after a single use.

The real magic is with the combined effects working together--the dulling of pain and the excess energy boost. Normally, when you push yourself really hard in a short span of time, you will start to 'feel the burn' or ache, etc; you have your limits, basically. But with cocaine, due to the interaction of its effects, generally you'll be able to not only push harder for longer due to excess energy, but also you aren't as susceptible to your normal 'limits' because that 'burn' is no longer a significant factor. You'll feel it the next day of course, and there are certain things that no amount of cocaine will prevent obviously, but while you're still high, you're generally not going to be getting very exhausted or depleted.

In fact, a lot of times you'll have so much energy as a result of your high, that you'll be compelled to expend as much of it as possible. There's this "bottled up" sensation, similar to an adrenaline rush. This is part of why cocaine and aggression often go hand in hand, because all that energy needs an outlet, and aggression is generally a good outlet for it.

Cocaine is a fairly addictive substance. The more you use, the more you tend to want, and the more you use, the higher your tolerance becomes, which means you incrementally increase your dosage over time. It's highly unlikely this was a one time thing for Jones. It's an expensive addiction to have, but Jones has the income to support it. So it wouldn't be surprising to know that it was habitual.
 
I've heard that South American indiginous peoples used to chew coca leaves for enhanced endurance, so I expect that cocaine is performance enhancing.
 
BullyKutta said:
Cocaine is absolutely in the PED category. If you don't believe this you've either:

1. Never done it.

2. Only done cocaine that's been severely stepped on.

Let's ignore the fact that it basically overclocks your body's natural functions and increases alertness, the shit was used as an ANAESTHETIC to numb pain back in the early 20th century. If you ingest enough high grade coke, you'll be astonished at how high your pain tolerance suddenly goes.

And let's not forget the anecdotal evidence of other fighters who've used it and seemingly been unstoppable.

If Jones has been using right before fights, then he should be stripped of the belt.

Shame on the UFC for not having a stronger stance on this as well. He popped dirty a fucking month before the fight. Despicable.
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Yeah, that's in the regulations and the fight would be ruled a NC and Jones would probably be stripped (I'm not positive on whether or not he'd be stripped). Jones was caught out of competition, though. I'll add that I have done cocaine (never when I haven't been drunk, though, and cocaine has quite different effects when coupled with alcohol than if taken alone) and know what kind of psychological effects it has (in addition to its effects on the nervous system). It could have real psychological benefits to someone in competition. Cocaine would most likely have rather disastrous physical effects in a 5 round fight, though, considering its impact on heart rate and heat regulation.
 
footodors said:
coked up and you surely don't want to fight
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That actually isn't always true. Bob Probert was a famous hockey player for the Detroit Red Wings and notorious badass that beat the shit out out of basically everybody he fought (along with Joey Kocur his teammate). Both trained boxing at Kronk gyms. Joe was simply a great fighter. Probert was more just big and tough as nails. But his 'strategy' if you will was take punches to get punches and would eventually flatten the guy he was exchanging with. How?

Turns out he used to bend down out of camera range and snort coke right off the bench! lol. After he got caught and went to rehab and was being tested and couldn't do that any more, suddenly he became an average fighter and was getting beat even by nobodies. Anybody who has been in a street-fight with someone coked up knows what a nightmare it is. They don't feel pain and don't go down easy. Although meth is the real nightmare. But I literally broke a bone in my wrist along with shattering two knuckles fighting a guy on coke because I was hitting him so hard to get his ass down. And this was a big guy (football player) on top of it where losing simply could not be an option. It was one of the very few fights I would say I had some fear/panic/desperation going and went into overdrive as it was freaking me out the guy wouldn't drop.

As I think it was Jay E that said in this thread or maybe another, in competition yeah it would help. Out of competition it would do more harm than good.
 
Cocaine is definitely performance enhancing. I used to snort caine before working out because it would allow me to workout more intensely.

It doesn't matter whether he was on caine during the fight or not. Using coke while working out or training is performance enhancing.

Also, Cocaine takes 2 days to clear from your system which means that if he tested positive on December 4th, he was using it during his training camp.
 
Lol, Cocain is more effective than Roids. Classic
 
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