The "Octagon control" argument is complete bullshit

[Volador]

So, there's been a narrative going around that "octagon control" and "aggression" ie. taking the center of the cage or walking forward, are some extremely important metrics that should win you a round, even if you lose the striking or grappling exchanges.

This is not only counterintuitive, it is also against the official judging criteria used in MMA. In other words, it is bullshit. These are excerpts from the official set of judging criteria that the ABC publishes and that is (or should be) used by commissions. If you are a lazy bastard just read the underlined parts:

Source: http://www.abcboxing.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/2017-Official-MMA-Judging-Criteria.pdf


Regarding Joe's comments about "the new rules being in effect", this should not matter, in general, as Big John said in this interview:

Source: https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2018/3/...-criteria-new-old-unified-rules-mma-interview


Anyway, I'll rewatch the fight tonight. But lets be clear. If you want to make an argument that Jones won any of the first 3, you need to either argue that he won the striking and grappling, or that those were 100% even , so then you default to octagon control (and I don't think any of those happened).

In my opinion, Jones lost. What is clear is that something needs to be done about the judging system, the judge training and the judge selection criteria.

 

[TheToqueville]

So, there's been a narrative going around that "octagon control" and "aggression" ie. taking the center of the cage or walking forward, are some extremely important metrics that should win you a round, even if you lose the striking or grappling exchanges.

This is not only counterintuitive, it is also against the official judging criteria used in MMA. In other words, it is bullshit. These are excerpts from the official set of judging criteria that the ABC publishes and that is (or should be) used by commissions. If you are a lazy bastard just read the underlined parts:

Source: http://www.abcboxing.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/2017-Official-MMA-Judging-Criteria.pdf


Regarding Joe's comments about "the new rules being in effect", this should not matter, in general, as Big John said in this interview:

Source: https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2018/3/...-criteria-new-old-unified-rules-mma-interview


Anyway, I'll rewatch the fight tonight. But lets be clear. If you want to make an argument that Jones won any of the first 3, you need to either argue that he won the striking and grappling, or that those were 100% even , so then you default to octagon control (and I don't think any of those happened).

In my opinion, Jones lost. What is clear is that something needs to be done about the judging system, the judge training and the judge selection criteria.

Summary of TS' thread:

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH




Still undefeated, something your favorite fighter could never do.

Learn to cope with it.

 

[Volador]

Summary of TS' thread:

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Summary of your existence:

"I am a fucking idiot"

 

[Rvd Slmr]

Also lol at octagon control when Jones ran away from Reyes on several occasions. Can't wait to have those gifs.

 

[johncola]

I would like the post if i could. I've been saying the same things since last night, only without the sources.

One small correction is that aggression > control. If you score the striking as even then give the round to the aggressor. If you can't determine the aggressor then score via control. If after that you still have nothing, it's 10-10.

Like you I need to rewatch. I had Reyes up the first 3 rounds, edged the 4th to Jones, and gave Jones the 5th. I think the only clear rounds are the 1st and the 5th, and thus think 48-47 and 49-46 either side is justifiable.

 

[elbowsandwiches]

if octagon control matters then nick diaz would have beat condit

 

[Justinboxing]

Casual

 

[Final Say]

It matters but only if the striking/grappling exchanges and overall damage done are so close that you have to give it to a guy based on aggression

it should be the last thing considered

this is also why moraes beat aldo

 

[Robotnickx]

Yeah dog, I'm done with the UFC. NBA, NFL, NHL, boxing and now the UFC have all been caught blatantly shaving points while enforcing subjective rule sets.

Anyone with half a brain can see the corporate overlords slowly overtaking the arena of athletic competition in North America. Guess it's time to get reacquainted with alpine sports because those aren't corrupt as fuck, yet. The devil is in the details, they enforce subjective rules then scapegoat the fuck out of it when they are called out on the bullshit. It's the same in all the major sports.

 

[Arkham's Notorious Geyser]

Summary of TS' thread:

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Funny thing is, I was thinking to myself I wonder what @TheToqueville was gonna respond with and boy you didn't disappoint lol. You used to be not so bad, but man those Yellow Cards are fitting because you are spewing some absolute Shite, you're becoming quite predictable with your rhetoric and it's disappointing that an adult conducts themselves that way. Oh well, at least the Mods know it enough to card your ass.

 

[Steve Fox]

Who the f* cares dude..

 

[Volador]

Casual

Join date: Today
Post count: 35 in 1 day
Post content: 1 word
Name: Has "boxing" in it

You know what else is "just in"? That you should GTFO

 

[Robotnickx]

Who the f* cares dude..

People that enjoy watching legitimate competition, that's who cares. Fuck your braindead moronic rhetoric. Retards like you are how we got where we are. May as well go watch bum fights in a back alley with no rules, dumbass.

 

[Davey Crockett]

Yeah dog, I'm done with the UFC. NBA, NFL, NHL, boxing and now the UFC have all been caught blatantly shaving points while enforcing subjective rule sets.

Anyone with half a brain can see the corporate overlords slowly overtaking the arena of athletic competition in North America. Guess it's time to get reacquainted with alpine sports because those aren't corrupt as fuck, yet. The devil is in the details, they enforce subjective rules then scapegoat the fuck out of it when they are called out on the bullshit. It's the same in all the major sports.

One fight they judge on empirical data, the next they go off feelings and “control”

Waiting for this event for so long and then seeing what transpired last night has truly made me question why I follow the sport

 

[Beherit]

Summary of TS' thread:

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH




Still undefeated, something your favorite fighter could never do.

Learn to cope with it.

do you have any arguments other than stupid provocations ? weirdo ...

 

[Steve Fox]

People that enjoy watching legitimate competition, that's who cares. Fuck your braindead moronic rhetoric. Retards like you are how we got where we are. May as well go watch bum fights in a back alley with no rules, dumbass.

^facts > your opinion

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

What jon was doing most of that fight is called INEFFECTIVE AGGRESSION.

 

[johnyboy]

Summary of TS' thread:

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH




Still undefeated, something your favorite fighter could never do.

Learn to cope with it.

He has a loss. Regardless if you count it or not it is still an official loss.

 

[Boy God]

People that enjoy watching legitimate competition, that's who cares. Fuck your braindead moronic rhetoric. Retards like you are how we got where we are. May as well go watch bum fights in a back alley with no rules, dumbass.

 

[Mob69]

Totally agree. Walking forward means nothing in itself. Ditto standing in the centre of the cage. Circling the perimeter or moving backwards are often sophisticated tools that open up high level offense. Anyone who understands combat sports on more than a rudimentary level knows that.