the myth that Robbie is a bad match up for Askren

I WILL CUT YOU said:
Is that why Ben struggled with Jay Heiron (0-4 UFC) and Luis Santos?
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Jay Heiron was on the longest winning streak of his career when they fought and apparently Ben had not trained wrestling in a long time before that fight(he mentioned it was a mistake on JRE) and Luis Santos is a well known front runner who almost always does well early in fights. Ben was also green at that point in time.

I agree with you that Lawler is a difficult style match up for Askren and the only thing that IMO makes this a close fight is Lawler's years in MMA, wars and recent ACL injury, I just think context is important.
 
Robbie hasn't fought since Dec 2017, and has taken DAMAGE.

I'm with the OP on this one, evidence is leaning towards a late career decline.
 
TemDee said:
Lawler has a really good sprawl, but even in the Hendricks fight he showed that he can be held up against the cage. Lawler is a defensive pocket boxer who isn't nearly the KO threat he's made out to be.

This is honestly the easiest contender matchup that Askren could have been given. I'm not saying Askren will win this fight, but if Askren can't beat Robbie, he doesn't belong anywhere near the top 5.
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AWilder said:
Askren wins = "Robbie is washed up"
Robbie wins = "Askren was never UFC level"

you know that will be 90% of the threads after this fight.
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But both are correct. The only result that matters is Askren winning, because Robbie is done.
 
Uh, Johhny tried to wrestler Lawler and it did not work out well for him. Askren needs to hope that Robbie is on the downside of his career, otherwise Robbie is gonna maul him
 
Ahhh yes, use 205 and 185 pound fighters. Good stuff.
 
Kvolcom said:
Sure, Robbie fought Hendricks, but Johnny doesn't wrestle..he likes to bang. Everyone he fought likes to stand except for a past his prime Kos. And Kos likes to bang too.

When Lawler was in Strikeforce fighting guys that wrestle, try to take you down and don't stand up, he got destroyed.

Jake Shields MW
Babalu MW/LHW
Jacare MW
Tim Kennedy HUGE MW
Larkin MW

They all wrestle fucked him...what do you think Askren is going to do to him? lol easy work
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those are big dudes man. Robbie is a different beast fighting at 170. Kos tried to wrestle fuck him too and his head got bounced of the canvas
 
What a faulty premise of an op.

Ben uses absolutely nothing of threat to set up his take downs. Even if Robbie is suspectable to take downs (which he actually defends well enough even against fighters with striking ability) he has nothing else to worry about. Ben spamming TD attempts and getting cracked coming in is more of a concern than Robbie being wrestled fucked.
 
TemDee said:
Lawler has a really good sprawl, but even in the Hendricks fight he showed that he can be held up against the cage. Lawler is a defensive pocket boxer who isn't nearly the KO threat he's made out to be.

This is honestly the easiest contender matchup that Askren could have been given. I'm not saying Askren will win this fight, but if Askren can't beat Robbie, he doesn't belong anywhere near the top 5.
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Concise and accurate.
 
JudoThrowFiasco said:
What a faulty premise of an op.

Ben uses absolutely nothing of threat to set up his take downs. Even if Robbie is suspectable to take downs (which he actually defends well enough even against fighters with striking ability) he has nothing else to worry about. Ben spamming TD attempts and getting cracked coming in is more of a concern than Robbie being wrestled fucked.
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Possibly, but sometimes fighters who have a singular, unapologetic goal (I.e. cheal/khabib) can be very successful.
 
kalabula said:
Possibly, but sometimes fighters who have a singular, unapologetic goal (I.e. cheal/khabib) can be very successful.
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Both actually will set up a shot with punches - khabibs striking while lacking fluidity actually gives people problems. I guess sonnen is a good comparison but he at least tries to flail before shooting in - Ben doesn't have anything to threaten Robbie with to get him to stop thinking about the sprawl
 
Wouldn't say bad but interesting at the very least. I feel it's gonna be a good one.
 
Robbie's TDD has got much better since StrikeForce, as he trained with King Mo, fixed his holes and obviously had a massive career resurgence. Robbie is a bi-polar type fighter and you do not know who you will get. Askren has also clearly lost a step since his earlier days and some of his fights in One show this. He WAS definitely a top 10 WW but if he remains one today is a different story.
 
Elite wrestling is elite wrestling... whether you perform it on a can or a UFC brawler
 
filthynumber1 said:
Lawler has decent TD defence and Ben has zero stand up so if he keeps it on the feet, he wins 10/10 times. Question is, can he keep it standing....
I definitely see Ben gettin some takedowns but if robbie can scramble and get back up it's good night benny
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Yeah, Askren will at least have to make Robbie respect his striking enough to give him openings for take downs. Robbie has good TDD as it is, but if that's all Robbie's gotta do is stop TD's and stay on the offense with hands it could be tough for Askren to do anything. Having said that the hard, cold truth is that I believe late resurgence Robbie was probably somewhat chemically-fueled and post-USADA Robbie isn't that same killer any more so we'll see.
 
Rationality said:
Yeah, Askren will at least have to make Robbie respect his striking enough to give him openings for take downs. Robbie has good TDD as it is, but if that's all Robbie's gotta do is stop TD's and stay on the offense with hands it could be tough for Askren to do anything. Having said that the hard, cold truth is that I believe late resurgence Robbie was probably somewhat chemically-fueled and post-USADA Robbie isn't that same killer any more so we'll see.
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I really don't get why people are so suprised by Lawler getting much better when he dropped from 185 to 170 and stopped training with high school wrestlers and joined one of the best MMA gyms in the world. His decline also makes sense since he's fought for like 15 years and has been in a lot of wars back to back in recent years.

Sure, he could have used PEDS but there are a bunch of obvious reasons why he did much better that have nothing to do with PEDs.
 
Lawler isn't the easiest guy to get down and once down he isn't all that easy to control. Askren is damn good, so he might get it done, but it won't be easy. In the meantime, Lawler can put the hurt on a man if given the opportunity.

Sating Lawler is a bad match up doesn't make this a lock for Robbie. But it is a big test for Askren and will tell us a lot about where he stands imo.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
I really don't get why people are so suprised by Lawler getting much better when he dropped from 185 to 170 and stopped training with high school wrestlers and joined one of the best MMA gyms in the world. His decline also makes sense since he's fought for like 15 years and has been in a lot of wars back to back in recent years.

Sure, he could have used PEDS but there are a bunch of obvious reasons why he did much better that have nothing to do with PEDs.
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Your point is well taken. I didn't know about the improvements in his camps, other than the random scuttlebutt here on SD.
 
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