The Mike Pence thread....

ripskater said:
That's mom and dad's responsibility to raise and provide for their children. Not to murder them.
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I have to ask, by what mechanism do you determine the point where it’s murder VS destroying a clump of cells? Is it the point where the sperm fertilizes the egg? Prior to that, when the egg and sperm are both there, a prior state of what will be a human being one day, are they not recognized as such? Is it the moment where the sperm fertilizes the egg where it becomes murder – and if so, what makes this moment so profoundly important, where it turns from just getting rid of some bit of bio matter to killing a human being? And if it’s not the moment of conception that’s the turning point between getting rid of cells VS murder, what point is it?

I’m genuinely curious and I know you tend to explain such positions in a civil manner, so you seemed like a good one to ask. Thanks in advance.
 
ehtheist said:
What the hell do people think the word “cuck” means these days?
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Liberals are trying to attach the term "cuck" to any other group because they know it describes modern liberals so perfectly.
 
CEROVFC said:
So. while rumors of The Don offering Kasich both domestic and foreign policy ownership may or may not be substantiated, one thing is for sure is The Don will need to lean on a lot of people.

I'm not saying he wouldn't be a good or great POTUS, but it's like someone who is a life long CEO of one company switching over to CEO of a new company in a different industry. There is a lot of getting up to speed involved. We've seen The Don lost on what the Nuclear Triad is, and there has to be a lot of elements of politics that he is not well versed in.

This makes the VP pick more important than normal. But Mike Pence feels like a stranger to me, and certainly doesn't evoke emotion of The Don or Hillary, but it could be argued much more so than the Democratic side, a vote for Trump, is a vote for whatever Mike Pence's policies may be.

So the question is, what are the Sherbro war room's thoughts on Mike Pence's policies?
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He has done an awesome job economically in Indiana but took heat with his stance on gays. (Trump differs with him in this regard...Trump is for gay marriage and Pence isn't) If Pence became president he isn't going to try to overturn gay marriage or anything so there is no need to worry. (No way could it be overturned even if he wanted to.)

One of the unconventional things that he did was give free needles out to druggies. Indiana had a town with a big AIDs crisis that was spread through druggies using old needles (and sharing) Giving them free clean needles sounds weird but it actually helped. Needles are hard to come by so he made them readily available to encourage less needle sharing. At least he can think outside of the box.

Also, unlike most establishment politicians he is actually honest (regardless of what you think of his political stances)
 
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ehtheist said:
Oh, absolutely. Actually, I don’t like his motivations and I’m mixed on the particular issue in question – business rights to deny people service VS person’s right to not be discriminated against for their sexual preferences, and I believe both positions have very real merit.

The thing is, there is a mechanism in place for the people to dictate to an elected official whether they approve of what she/he is doing or not, and it’s voting her/him in or out next election. It is absolutely not letting Disney come in and push its weight around until the state gives it what it wants because even if we agree with individual instances of what they’re pushing for, the precedent of such corporate bullying is absolutely terrifying. Supporting companies bullying state governments because you agree with the issue is like supporting Isis because they blew up someone you didn’t like. Pence giving in is taking the power away from the people and giving it to the mega corporations – and isn’t that something we usually oppose? Well, at least until we agree with what they’re doing, it seems.
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Well you're arguing with the wrong person on this as I don't support either the state or corporations dictating morality- ie, forcing bakers to make gay cakes or priests to marry gay couples is an infringement of their rights. Corporate bullying however, is a less egregious abuse because the public can react with boycotts in return.

But thats not what this thread is about- we are discussing Pence's judgment and character as the potential POTUS. And that's where his personal feelings on gays will effect policy. Whether or not his actions defending Indiana from "corporate bullies" was justified in some moral vacuum is not the issue.

He is anti-gay and will pursue anti gay legislation because it is at the heart of his agenda.
 
ehtheist said:
I have to ask, by what mechanism do you determine the point where it’s murder VS destroying a clump of cells? Is it the point where the sperm fertilizes the egg? Prior to that, when the egg and sperm are both there, a prior state of what will be a human being one day, are they not recognized as such? Is it the moment where the sperm fertilizes the egg where it becomes murder – and if so, what makes this moment so profoundly important, where it turns from just getting rid of some bit of bio matter to killing a human being? And if it’s not the moment of conception that’s the turning point between getting rid of cells VS murder, what point is it?

I’m genuinely curious and I know you tend to explain such positions in a civil manner, so you seemed like a good one to ask. Thanks in advance.
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I believe life begins at conception. So I'm also against the morning after pill. Does that answer your question?
 
ripskater said:
I believe life begins at conception. So I'm also against the morning after pill. Does that answer your question?
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Not really. One second you have an egg and a sperm, and the next second you have a fertilized egg - IE, the two conjoined - or, a cell which will eventually divide until it becomes what we recognize as a human being. What happens in that split second that makes that single egg a human being that is murdered when it is removed from the body? What's the big change that turns the act of getting rid of that egg from getting rid of an egg to murder?
 
ripskater said:
Well the left always throws the word "hate" around. They accuse everyone of hate and racism. It gets old. Especially when it's not true.
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It's not unfounded in this context...at all.
 
ehtheist said:
Not really. One second you have an egg and a sperm, and the next second you have a fertilized egg - IE, the two conjoined - or, a cell which will eventually divide until it becomes what we recognize as a human being. What happens in that split second that makes that single egg a human being that is murdered when it is removed from the body? What's the big change that turns the act of getting rid of that egg from getting rid of an egg to murder?
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Life begins somewhere between conception and birth right? Since we don't know for a fact where, we have to arbitrarily assign some point as its beginning for legal reasons. The question, then, is where do we assign that point? Let's remember, too, that the stakes are extremely high: underestimating how early life begins means all abortions that occur before our erroneously assigned point in gestation were homicide. What, then, is the safest point to assume life begins with regards to preventing homicide? Clearly it is conception. That's why I feel considering conception to be the only morally justifiable assumption we can make about the beginning of life until science can make a more conclusive case about life starting some time after that.
 
ehtheist said:
Not really. One second you have an egg and a sperm, and the next second you have a fertilized egg - IE, the two conjoined - or, a cell which will eventually divide until it becomes what we recognize as a human being. What happens in that split second that makes that single egg a human being that is murdered when it is removed from the body? What's the big change that turns the act of getting rid of that egg from getting rid of an egg to murder?
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That's when life begins. Are you asking me how it happens in more detail? I don't really know other than dna combines at conception between mother and father to create another life.
 
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Overpressure said:
That's cute, referring to him that way.
Not racist, it was a joke!
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It was the finger wave reference.

Honestly though, I don't think anybody would ever accuse me of being a racist, but damn I find racist jokes hilarious.
 
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