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The Mentzer's legacy...

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Braziluvr, May 16, 2008.

  1. takeahnase watching the swarm

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    [​IMG]
     
  2. daemonarch push my car

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    not realy, my source is common sense and some expirience. I just wanted to explain that it is not enough "just to train whatsoever" (as waste majority of ppl do) - you got know what are you doing exactly.
    ever seen marathon runner squat 500?
    No.
    ever seen strongman run marathon in 2 hours?
    No.
    think about it. not all that shines is gold.
    If you train for pure endurance your strenght will suffer, if you train for pure strenght your endurance will suffer in the same way.

    90% of ppl in the gyms worldwide train like monkeys, without a clue what the hell are they doing, exactly.

    So once again, Mentzers HIT is realy realy powerfull tool in a many ways, it shows how little training we need to get awfully strong and big, but use it for what it is - STRENGHT BUILDING PROGRAMM - it is not answer to all questions

    And any purely strenght program (and HIT is exterme one such) are potentialy dangerous to your health without employing some cardio to balance it - its my personal opinion

    Soif you think HIT is great and suffice to all your criteria and you are not doing anything else, nothing for cardio - you will be greatly misstaken. It will devastate your blood vessels and heart leaving you in very poor condition.


    .
     
  3. daemonarch push my car

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    Im not trying to impress anyone, I just write what i bloody well know.
    Still thanx anyway (Im human after all:icon_chee)
     
  4. daemonarch push my car

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    Now, this attached image makes you a cool guy or what???
     
  5. Chaos Mitten** Banned Banned

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    No. That pic is just for laughs. His guns and guitars are what make him a cool guy.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. daemonarch push my car

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  7. maori rule all Blue Belt

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    HIT training, training to failure if I'm right. will damage blood vessels and the heart?

    Is this done with or without Cardio or do you think doing HIT training in general damages your health.

    I'm still baffled by all this. I would personally do phases of HIT or a varient of it, for about 1-2 months at a time at most and the results I get are a lot better than other routines I've used. So maybe my body adapts to that sort of stimulus better than it would doing multiple sub-maximal sets, but like I said, I only do it in phases. Just like Keith Wassung said, which was a great post.

    I do play rugby as well so I am constantly running and doing muscular endurance and cardio type work.
     
  8. Todd Gack Dutch

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    Aren't you just stating the obvious though? Using HIT/HD training as per Mentzer, 1-2 times a week and nothing else. Doesn't seem to suprise me that one's overall fitness level would go down.

    True, Mentzer did educate many about overtraining, but he seemed to go too far in the opposite direction. He also used to claim that Heavy Duty was the scientific way to train, yet his one size fits all dogma is anything but in accordance with science.
     
  9. daemonarch push my car

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    Look, Im not saying that HIT is by definition bad for your health or something like that. Just that you have to balance its effects by some kind a cardio activity, and that ANY purely strenght training program will damage your health, not instantly but in the long run, if it is everything you do.

    Cardio excercises are good but we need muscle strenght as well so strenght training programs like HIT have their place Im just saying do not let it be the only thing you do. Remember my analogy with marathon runner? Do we agree that training purely endurance training (marathon, cycling...) makes your muscular strenght diminsh? Good, it must then be the same in other direction - that doing training program purely designed fot strenght will affect negatively bit for bit your endurance, meaning cardio, meaning health, meaning threaten your life in time to come.

    you are running and playing rugby ? Great - you are safe! Once again it is not HIT that is dangerous by itself it is if you alow it to be the only thing you do. It is not "training to failure" part of it that is dangerous either, you can do it to failure everytime.

    Just dont let it be everything you do. We need balance.

    :icon_arroDoing only one type of training will be proven as dangerous as eating just one kind of food, like only proteins, or only carbs, or only fat, or whatever and excluding everything else!!!:icon_arro
     
  10. Todd Gack Dutch

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    Ah, ok now I get what you're saying. I was confused by the last post. I hear what you're saying though. Art Devany once said that specialization is the worst thing for overall health.
     
  11. takeahnase watching the swarm

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  12. daemonarch push my car

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    Look Im dicussing Mentzers work from a point of view of a fighter or from a health POV. I make simple observations in accordance with my other knowledge and my observation is that HIT works more than well if your target is building some strenght and muscle tissue, and Im warning "do not forget cardio while you are in it". Those are my main observations.

    also, i will point out that every fighter should be happy that HIT works, cos it is very cheap program in term of time required, so you have plenty of time and energy for working on your technique. Basicly it means you do not need to spend 5 hours a week in the gym only lifting iron in order to be strong.

    as for point of view of pure body building, I cannot say anything, Im not qualified and I even dont like body building, but I supose that Mike knew a thing or two, about it - it was he that was Mr olympia, after all....
     
  13. daemonarch push my car

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    yes, you got it now
     
  14. Chaos Mitten** Banned Banned

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    All this HIT Jedi talk makes my head hurt.
     
  15. dfoster Banned Banned

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    Well HIT training alone neglects cardio. So doing HIT alone in the long run, your cardio shape will not be good. I get this, if you don't work on something, it will go down over time.

    But in your previous posts, you said HIT training not only neglects cardio but is even harmful to cardio like the heart and blood vessels. And that training for HIT long term, one is worse off than not training at all. That what got my interest, because as I posted about my suspicion that HIT might have affected my heart for the short time that I tried it. But I didn't have any other sources to collaborate/confirm this. I'm very curious. Do you have any experiences/know of any rumors, ect... in this area? And any on strength training in general being harmful to longevity and general health? (biomechanics, biochemistry, ect.,) A lot of old timers (60-70 years old) echoed this sentiments when I talked to them about working out. So that must have been a popular concept when they grew up.
     
  16. daemonarch push my car

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    Good, then you can assume there is somethin in it, right?

    btw, isnt it Pavel that came up with that "HIT jedis" talk?

    but think if both Pavel jedis and HIT jedis were right, think if all the roads realy lead to Rome???

    (still, both need to do more cardio, goddamit:icon_chee)
     
  17. Chaos Mitten** Banned Banned

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    HIT works for those who are primarily interested in hypertrophy. DC training, which is widely praised as one of the best bodybuilding programs, is based on HIT principles.

    HIT is crap if you are looking for strength gains. Yes, you will get stronger, but not nearly as strong those who use a proper strength training program.
     
  18. dexter c Borderline anorexic

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    Thank fucking Christ.
     
  19. Todd Gack Dutch

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    Hit Jedis came up with the term Hit Jedis. Particularly Matt Brzycki.
     
  20. daemonarch push my car

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    you got it but you do not got it all the way.

    "your cardio will not be good" is realy the same as "it will be worst and worst until you are dead" - it is only a matter of degree.

    why i said "training nothing is better that training JUST purely strenght program": Imagine some normalweight guy, like 80 kg, not training and being able to deadlift lets say 120. If that guy begins seriously with some serious endurance training (long runns) he will "get in shape" partly by losing lets say 15 kg, a lot of it being muscle, and he will be better in long distance running but will NOT be able longer to deadlift 120 kg!

    now, same must go in other direction - if you get into SERIOUS strenght training, long term, strenght gains WILL happen on the cost of your endurance,meaning cardio which means heart which means health, life...

    if you put 10 kilograms or more muscle on your body how it will affect your oxygen demands from lungs and heart and blood vessels - blood pressure - all the body!?

    it WILL affect, be sure.

    building muscle without doing cardio along the way is stupid. It may see good on picture, or when you are still young, but it will catch you

    you do not need any scientific studies, use your head: how many bodybuilders with good gas you know? Of course they say "Im too heavy to run a 100 meters" - yeah sure...excuses!

    as for me, i think we need both, cardio and muscle, it just happens that overdoing strenght is deadlier than overdoing cardio, although the later is not a good idea either
     

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