The magnificent drumming skills of Antonio Sanchez

[TrippleOG]

I think i like Tony Royster Jr better.

 

[volodya]

Irrelevant. This is a game where nobody ever wins: classical lovers will always fight for their style and jazz purist will always pity their classical colleagues. Here's my theory:

The two styles are opposed yet they aim at the same thing: flawless performance. The thing is, it's much easier to see the "perfection" in classical music because they are always playing the same thing. If they "miss" a note or make a mistake, everyone in the room will know because the piece is written in a way that you must follow.

Jazz has the same "perfection" goal but the context is totally different: they never play the same thing. Even the more seasoned musician is unable to predict what will happen in a given performance and sometimes, even musicians themselves don't know what's coming. The "standards" are written in a way that you can switch all the chords for more complex ones and you can choose to play "out" of the relative scale any time you want. The perfection relies in the understanding you have of a piece, to the point where you end up playing completely different but still following the general idea.

You can't do that in classical. Even grandmasters will make an entire career of following partitions to the letter. Sure the Chef can choose to raise the intensity or play more subtly but in the end, you're playing exactly what's written on the sheet. In fact, derivation from the norm is the KEY to understanding Jazz where blind following of the norm is the pillar that holds classical music.

In my opinion, both styles have their merit but only one gives the artist the freedom to express himself freely. Classical can be complex and subtle but the musicians are never free to let their feelings influence their playing: if they're sad and the chef says "play happily", you play happily and you shut up.

In Jazz, if you're sad on Monday you play the piece sadly and if you become happy on Tuesday, you can play the same piece happily on Tuesday.

Artistic freedom to the artists!

Ummm...I'm on my phone and only replying to a tiny part of what you said, but...."Classical can be complex and subtle but the musicians are never free to let their feelings influence their playing"

That's terribly misguided and wrong.

 

[Metal_Daze]

anyone know the drummer's name?

That's Virgil freaking Donati! One of the only drummer to be on even ground with Antonio Sanchez!

You hit the jackpot there, not much chance to find better drummers anywhere in the Universe...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgil_Donati

Guess where he comes from? Jazz, of course!

 

[Metal_Daze]

Ummm...I'm on my phone and only replying to a tiny part of what you said, but...."Classical can be complex and subtle but the musicians are never free to let their feelings influence their playing"

That's terribly misguided and wrong.

Get on a real computer and explain me why. Does a classical player goes against the director's will? No. Of course, if he's playing alone, there's more latitude.

But in a symphonic environment? He'd get fired in a heartbeat if he can't comply with the director's will.

 

[weed]

That's Virgil freaking Donati! One of the only drummer to be on even ground with Antonio Sanchez!

You hit the jackpot there, not much chance to find better drummers anywhere in the Universe...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgil_Donati

Guess where he comes from? Jazz, of course!

hahaha nice man. he's fucking sick with the double bass man. a'l three of them are sick. love Kiko

 

[BEER]

Musicians who play in bands are very aware of this but "casual" players and living room guitarists are not. You're absolutely right about guitar: most legends are sloppy guitar players with very low technical skills. Jimi is the best example: slopiest ever but also the most unique sound, for his time. On guitar, it's easier to be unique due to the nature of the instrument. On drums, you can be creative and free but you're still hitting skin with sticks.

I only have to disagree with your stance on bassists: their standards are not lower than drummers. You can only be sloppy in candy-pop bands, no serious rock band can stand a sloppy bassist...

Ehhhhh. I disagree. Most rock bands have sloppy bassists, and it doesn't matter because you can't hear them in recordings or live either way.

Bands that put an emphasis on production quality (both in recording and live acts) will seek out tight, talented bassists. But the vast majority of rock bands? As long as you can hit the beginning of each measure, you're probably going to be just fine.

 

[Metal_Daze]

I have to thank you for that video @22k

It is awesome. I often get in arguments with fellow musician on why jazz drummers are in their own world. Every time I try to make them realize, I always get the same answer: "but how is he on the double-bass"? Of course, you never find jazz drummers running on the double-bass drum, it's not adequate for Jazz. Jazz gets the same kind of groove with the ride, excepts it's way faster than double-bass and more subtle too.

Casual musicians think that because Jazz drummers don't do it, they can't do it. Ha! Thanks to you, I can finally throw them this video and tell them "look what a jazzman sounds like on the double-bass drum.

My music arguments will never be the same thanks to you!

 

[Metal_Daze]

Ehhhhh. I disagree. Most rock bands have sloppy bassists, and it doesn't matter because you can't hear them in recordings or live either way.

Bands that put an emphasis on production quality (both in recording and live acts) will seek out tight, talented bassists. But the vast majority of rock bands? As long as you can hit the beginning of each measure, you're probably going to be just fine.

You're right. I just listen to too much Rush, I'm to blame. I also listen to a lot of Jazz and bassists are on even grounds with drummers over there.

The best in the World.

 

[weed]

I have to thank you for that video @22k

It is awesome. I often get in arguments with fellow musician on why jazz drummers are in their own world. Every time I try to make them realize, I always get the same answer: "but how is he on the double-bass"? Of course, you never find jazz drummers running on the double-bass drum, it's not adequate for Jazz. Jazz gets the same kind of groove with the ride, excepts it's way faster than double-bass and more subtle too.

They think that because Jazz drummers don't do it, they can't do it. Ha! Thanks to you, I can finally throw them this video and tell them "look what a jazzman sounds like on the double-bass drum.

My music arguments will never be the same thanks to you!

all good man! I particularly take a strong liking to the double bass because he mounts so damn well, & the sound especially. reminds me of Vinnie Paul, where it almost sounds "wet" if that makes any sense.

 

[Codger]

Looks very complex but it doesn't do anything for me. So what's the point in that, for me?

 

[Metal_Daze]

all good man! I particularly take a strong liking to the double bass because he mounts so damn well, & the sound especially. reminds me of Vinnie Paul, where it almost sounds "wet" if that makes any sense.

If you're a fan of double-bass drum, I know a very unknown drummer who can drum circles around most double-bass gods:



Sound is bad but you'll get it.

 

[Metal_Daze]

Looks very complex but it doesn't do anything for me. So what's the point in that, for me?

It's really a question of taste. It's like an engineer: he will stop to admire a bridge and all that's needed to make it stand because he knows what's going on. Casual tourists will take tons of pictures without ever thinking one second about that.

I don't know what you can get out of it but I can assure you: I can get satisfaction from good technical drumming. I just hope to find people with whom I can share my passion. If you're not interested, I'm not forcing anything.

If you're more of a fan of the "I can't get no satisfaction" drum track, it's your right and I won't judge you. As long as you don't judge me. Because then, all bets are off!

 

[BEER]

You're right. I just listen to too much Rush, I'm to blame. I also listen to a lot of Jazz and bassists are on even grounds with drummers over there.

The best in the World.

I'm a prog-metal guy, so bass playing is cardinal. I just have no illusions about most of music.

I mean, even a lot of sloppy drumming gets by in most music, but no one will ever site a sloppy drummer as "great".

We have a good many guitarists and bassists who get that label due to creativity.

Which isn't to say that "technical" is the end-all. Technical means jack shit without innovation. I mean, for fucks sake, look at guys like Yngwie Malmsteen or Angelo Batio. Super-technical guitarists who are boring if you listen to them for more than 5 minutes.

Jazz, for me, kind of falls into the same category. A lot of it ends up blending together and sounding pretty much the same over time. Jazz is an "old" genre. I definitely feel like I get more pleasure out of people innovating and doing new things in new genres. Which is why my niche, again, is prog metal. Guys who can bring elements of jazz [or even classical] into the brutality of metal? Now that's fucking cool.

 

[loyalyolayal]

Irrelevant. This is a game where nobody ever wins: classical lovers will always fight for their style and jazz purist will always pity their classical colleagues. Here's my theory:

The two styles are opposed yet they aim at the same thing: flawless performance. The thing is, it's much easier to see the "perfection" in classical music because they are always playing the same thing. If they "miss" a note or make a mistake, everyone in the room will know because the piece is written in a way that you must follow.

Jazz has the same "perfection" goal but the context is totally different: they never play the same thing. Even the more seasoned musician is unable to predict what will happen in a given performance and sometimes, even musicians themselves don't know what's coming. The "standards" are written in a way that you can switch all the chords for more complex ones and you can choose to play "out" of the relative scale any time you want. The perfection relies in the understanding you have of a piece, to the point where you end up playing completely different but still following the general idea.

You can't do that in classical. Even grandmasters will make an entire career of following partitions to the letter. Sure the Chef can choose to raise the intensity or play more subtly but in the end, you're playing exactly what's written on the sheet. In fact, derivation from the norm is the KEY to understanding Jazz where blind following of the norm is the pillar that holds classical music.

In my opinion, both styles have their merit but only one gives the artist the freedom to express himself freely. Classical can be complex and subtle but the musicians are never free to let their feelings influence their playing: if they're sad and the chef says "play happily", you play happily and you shut up.

In Jazz, if you're sad on Monday you play the piece sadly and if you become happy on Tuesday, you can play the same piece happily on Tuesday.

Artistic freedom to the artists!

I think it's safe to say that classical music is science and jazz is art.

 

[Codger]

It's really a question of taste. It's like an engineer: he will stop to admire a bridge and all that's needed to make it stand because he knows what's going on. Casual tourists will take tons of pictures without ever thinking one second about that.

I don't know what you can get out of it but I can assure you: I can get satisfaction from good technical drumming. I just hope to find people with whom I can share my passion. If you're not interested, I'm not forcing anything.

If you're more of a fan of the "I can't get no satisfaction" drum track, it's your right and I won't judge you. As long as you don't judge me. Because then, all bets are off!

I don't drum and so all I know about drumming is when I like it. Drum solos as a rule kind of leave me a bit cold other than a "wow he's fast" sort of thing. And for that's I'd just as rather listen to this:

What's better about your chap exactly?

 

[BEER]

If you're a fan of double-bass drum, I know a very unknown drummer who can drum circles around most double-bass gods:



Sound is bad but you'll get it.

I'd be interested in your take about what you find so good a bout him.

From that video in particular, he wasn't doing anything impressive. Maintaining a simple double bass rhythm while focusing on accents with his rudiment work around the snare and toms. Ehhhhh.

 

[BEER]

I don't drum and so all I know about drumming is when I like it. Drum solos as a rule kind of leave me a bit cold other than a "wow he's fast" sort of thing. And for that's I'd just as rather listen to this:

What's better about your chap exactly?

I don't think anyone is going to compare Antonio Sanchez (or anyone at all) to Buddy Rich.

Even without being a drummer, you have a good ear. Buddy Rich may be the best of all time. He made a career our of embarrassing some of the other all-time-greats.

 

[weed]

If you're a fan of double-bass drum, I know a very unknown drummer who can drum circles around most double-bass gods:



Sound is bad but you'll get it.

quite the progression. dude gets especially nasty after the 4 minute mark. all while maintaining that look in his eye haha

 

[Metal_Daze]

You do realize that music, much like combat sport, evolves really fast. A decade is enough to change the paradigm. Antonio and Virgil are considered old and they're barely above 45.

Imagine a guy like Buddy Rich, who was already drumming back in the 30s. Yes, he was a virtuoso. Yes, his skills will never be matched. You might say he was (and stil is) the best in the World. But drumming has evolved tremendously in 80 years dude.

Just double bass drum, the subject we were talking about. How good do you think Buddy was on the double-bass? It took a decade for a guy to even come with the idea of putting two bass drums next to each other! First double-bass gig: 1946. But it took years for it to become common in jazz and slowly move to electric music.

 

[BEER]

I think it's safe to say that classical music is science and jazz is art.

Classical music is an art as well. The ability to craft atmosphere is unmatched in any other genre. Classical music makes you (or should make you) introspective. You should feel every fucking note in a beautiful way. Don't discount the cold science of theory from having an artform of itself.