The "Leon needs another top 5 win for a shot" argument.

[Mohawk Banditó]

While I do agree many people get title shots with less than stellar performances or wins. Leon has already lost to Usman and nothing he has shown makes it seem like that fight will go differently. If anything the wobbling by Nate and Usman's recent Knack for the finish makes me and I think many believe the fight will be even more dominant for Usman.

It's just hard to sell. 9 fight unbeaten streak. Completely well rounded skill set and no glaring weaknesses. He should have a title shot based on merit.

This isn't a spot solely based on merit you have to be able to sell the fight. In that regard Leon hasn't done enough to make it a sellable compelling fight IMO.

Its a 10 fight unbeaten streak now and although i agree with a lot of what you're saying, they're only true from contradicting viewpoints. Realistically, merit hasn't been the main selling point of title shots when it should be, idealisticly. But realism didn't also set the precedent that title challengers all need to be arguably competitive either. Even if everyone thinks the champ is clearly going to win, it doesn't mean they won't book the fight, nor does it mean they shouldn't.

Edwards deserves the title fight the most right now. + Edwards would get his ass kicked by Usman right now. = Edwards deserves to get his ass kicked by Usman in a title fight.

 

[sampuncher]

While I do agree many people get title shots with less than stellar performances or wins. Leon has already lost to Usman and nothing he has shown makes it seem like that fight will go differently. If anything the wobbling by Nate and Usman's recent Knack for the finish makes me and I think many believe the fight will be even more dominant for Usman.

It's just hard to sell. 9 fight unbeaten streak. Completely well rounded skill set and no glaring weaknesses. He should have a title shot based on merit.

This isn't a spot solely based on merit you have to be able to sell the fight. In that regard Leon hasn't done enough to make it a sellable compelling fight IMO.

I completely get everything you said but in terms of nothing to be shown the fight going different, exactly the same argument could be said for Masvidal. So ultimately if it's down solely to Leon not being a draw whereas Mas is, use that excuse. The "Leon hasn't beaten a top 5" opponent was more I was pointing at as being an absolutely weak excuse.

 

[Cameron]

Its a 10 fight unbeaten streak now and although i agree with a lot of what you're saying, they're only true from contradicting viewpoints. Realistically, merit hasn't been the main selling point of title shots when it should be, idealisticly. But realism didn't also set the precedent that title challengers all need to be arguably competitive either. Even if everyone thinks the champ is clearly going to win, it doesn't mean they won't book the fight, nor does it mean they shouldn't.

Edwards deserves the title fight the most right now. + Edwards would get his ass kicked by Usman right now. = Edwards deserves to get his ass kicked by Usman in a title fight.[/QUOTE

I completely get everything you said but in terms of nothing to be shown the fight going different, exactly the same argument could be said for Masvidal. So ultimately if it's down solely to Leon not being a draw whereas Mas is, use that excuse. The "Leon hasn't beaten a top 5" opponent was more I was pointing at as being an absolutely weak excuse.

100% It's a weak argument. He has done enough on merit alone. I think he should have his title shot, I'm just playing devils advocate.

Also the fight isn't getting made so clearly some of what I'm saying is valid. There just isn't enough Hype to sell the fight for what ever reason.

This is why I wish there were mandatory title challengers like in boxing. Leon would be a lock for sure. They can build a money fight or a better selling fight later. This way more fighters would get what they deserve instead of the UFC getting what sells.

 

[Cameron]

Its a 10 fight unbeaten streak now and although i agree with a lot of what you're saying, they're only true from contradicting viewpoints. Realistically, merit hasn't been the main selling point of title shots when it should be, idealisticly. But realism didn't also set the precedent that title challengers all need to be arguably competitive either. Even if everyone thinks the champ is clearly going to win, it doesn't mean they won't book the fight, nor does it mean they shouldn't.

Edwards deserves the title fight the most right now. + Edwards would get his ass kicked by Usman right now. = Edwards deserves to get his ass kicked by Usman in a title fight.

Agreed he does deserve it most on merit. But this is fighting and this is the UFC so merit doesn't mean a whole lot. Its something I don't agree with but its true.

I just hope that his management lets him sit he doesn't need another fight and he should just wait until the other contenders eliminate themselves and he gets what he earned.

 

[CashMoney1991]

he deserves it he hasn't lost in a while, not his fault not many ppl wanna fight him

 

[daniel san]

Well, seeing as Masvidal fought for the title twice even when not technically being an elite fighter, it's safe to say that rankings and who you beat does not matter that much. That being said, if Wonderboy beats Burns he is in a significantly better position for a title shot than Edwards who hasn't fought any elite fighters other than LW RDA. We have also seen Usman beat Edwards once, so Edwards need to be a bit more convincing if he wants a title shot.

Does anyone actually believe he can beat Usman? How? What has Edwards done in previous fights to suggest he can beat him? This is my biggest concern - he needs a signature win and not just a loooong list of decisions he has won against lower tier fighters. Had he KTFO Diaz it would have been an easy sell, but considering it was almost the other way around I am far from being sold on Edwards fighting Usman again. It's simply just a total waste of a title shot.

 

[kalabula]

Diaz would have finished him within another round
NO SHOT

I’m a fan of Nate. But he landed one shot. Aside from that he was getting embarrassed. It was not a good performance.

 

[Goldentrophy]

What hurts Leon's case is if WB finishes Burns since we are in a "What have you done for me lately" the narrative will be pushed to have a # 1 contenders bout vs WB whereas if Burns wins I think people won't have as much pushback on Leon waiting for the Colby/Usman 2 winner. You'll have some idiots even in the event of all that happening will still push for Belal or Chiesa/Vincent winner to fight Leon which neither deserve imo.

 

[Tito Tapped]

Rankings are silly and made up by bloggers who mostly don't have a fucking clue what they are talking about. Trying to use them in an argument is equally as silly.

What constitutes a title shot these days? What makes a contender? Simple. It's what the UFC can sell and there's no other prerequisite.

Can they sell Leon? Largely inactive and all anyone remembers from his last fight was him getting slapped and cracked. It's a hard sell. When fans say "he needs another top 5 win" what they mean is that he doesn't have enough interest but another good win would put him over in their estimation.

It's fine to think he's already there and if the right people got hurt or the timing lined up I think we'd all understand him getting a title shot but don't' expect fans to be singing his praises just yet. He's only knocking at the door, he hasn't stepped though.

 

[RockyLockridge]

Didn't read the thread? 2 comments in someone showed you a photo of RDA being ranked 4th.

Bro that top 5 win was years ago, literally years ago

 

[sampuncher]

Bro that top 5 win was years ago, literally years ago

You said he's never had one, he has.

If you're talking about current top 5's it's not a great example in fairness as no-one in the top 5 of the division has faced each other so currently no-one in the top 5 has a top 5 win. He's also got a win over Luque whose 5th currently, again, the win was years ago but Luque's in the top 5 now aswell.

I'm not here saying he's cleared contender after contender for a title shot, just moreso, guys have had title shots for A LOT less.

 

[Goldentrophy]

I don't think he needs another top 5 win. He just needs a performance that makes it seem like he can be competitive with Usman.

Nate had him badly hurt and Nate is know as a pillow fist. It doesn't scream that he can handle what Usman will throw at him.

If you look at the way Usman has been fighting and evolving from their first fight. I think he destroys Leon. I think most people would agree. So it doesn't make for a compelling fight when no one is giving the challenger a chance to win.

He just needs to look good in his next performance and I think he will have earned it.

I agree with your sentiments mostly but I think people hold on to getting "rocked" "dropped" with too much regard. I feel having a past opponent that on paper shouldn't have compromised you in striking shouldn't be indicative of how the person who got "compromised" will do in future bouts vs other opposition.

Masvidal getting hurt standing by Daron Cruickshank and primary grappler Chiesa but yet Lorenz and Nate Diaz who are better strikers couldn't have him hurt.
Wonderboy getting knocked out by Pettis but outclassing Neal/Luque.
Israel getting dropped by 5'9 natural ww in Kelvin but yet LHW champ did not have Israel hurt standing.

My point is we can't hold too much weight on an outcome of a fight to auto guarantee the outcome of the next bout vs a different opponent.

 

[wwkirk]

Unless Leon finishes someone before his streak ends, he may literally never get a title shot. But if he did manage to finish someone, the UFC would probably relent.

 

[sampuncher]

Unless Leon finishes someone before his streak ends, he may literally never get a title shot. But if he did manage to finish someone, the UFC would probably relent.

It's crazy he has an 8 second KO over Baczynski in the UFC in his record, I think it may have even been his first fight, imagine after that fight how much some Sherdoggers were probably hyping him up as a finishing machine after that.

 

[midorathirdtiger]

If Wonderboy beats Burns he deserves it for beating luque, neal, and a top 5. Otherwise I would rather Leon get the shot over colby because although it's still a rematch it's not a recent one.

 

[Virtually Identical]

It’s ludicrous that he isn’t getting a shot. Yet Khamzat can come back beat someone in the top 25 and immediately be hyped up for one

 

[arcadeperfect]

Wanted to create a thread as this is all I'm hearing on Sherdog as justification as to why Leon shouldn't get a title shot.

I understand Leon's personality can rub people up the wrong way, I think people use that as an excuse to ignore the fact the guys currently on a 9 fight win streak.

Just to go back a short while, I've used mma-stats.com as a guide, I know this may be flawed but it was the only way I could get the historical rankings for some of the guys.

Leon has 1 I believe if these rankings are correect, RDA was 5th ranked when Leon fought him apparently.

List of other guys top 5 wins before title shots post UFC 200.

Kamaru Usman - Top 5 wins before a title shot. - 1 - Also RDA . Maia was 7th ranked.
Colby - Top 5 wins before a title shot - 1 - Also RDA . 2nd Title shot/streak, also 1 in Woodley
Gilbert Burns - 1 in Woodley -
Masvidal - 1 in Darren Till
Woodley - 0 Top 5 wins before a title shot

Masvidal is the only guy above who got a finish over that top 5 guy aswell to add so that argument can't even be used for Leon either really IMO.

In recent memory, post UFC 200 only WB and Maia have pulled together more than 1 top 5 win before a title shot.

So based on that, why is there now a sudden insistence on Leon having to prove himself by fighting another top guy? I get the Nate fight he got wobbled at the end but was also winning 24 minutes of the fight. Granted guys like Cerrone and Nelson aren't as great as they were once regarded on the same streak but then there's guys like Luque on this streak whose now a top 5 guy himself.

I think considering the division at the top is full of guys coming off losses, giving it to the guy on a 9 fight streak doesn't seem the most outrageous of suggestions.

I'm not saying Leon SHOULD be the next challenger, I get both sides of the argument but it's moreso, everyone insistent on him facing more top 5 guys when that's never been the path for previous challengers? Is it because you're still not impressed with Leon, or just don't like the guys personality etc?

Askren was ranked #5 when Masvidal ended him.

 

[Xandros476]

Wanted to create a thread as this is all I'm hearing on Sherdog as justification as to why Leon shouldn't get a title shot.

I understand Leon's personality can rub people up the wrong way, I think people use that as an excuse to ignore the fact the guys currently on a 9 fight win streak.

Just to go back a short while, I've used mma-stats.com as a guide, I know this may be flawed but it was the only way I could get the historical rankings for some of the guys.

Leon has 1 I believe if these rankings are correect, RDA was 5th ranked when Leon fought him apparently.

List of other guys top 5 wins before title shots post UFC 200.

Kamaru Usman - Top 5 wins before a title shot. - 1 - Also RDA . Maia was 7th ranked.
Colby - Top 5 wins before a title shot - 1 - Also RDA . 2nd Title shot/streak, also 1 in Woodley
Gilbert Burns - 1 in Woodley -
Masvidal - 1 in Darren Till
Woodley - 0 Top 5 wins before a title shot

Masvidal is the only guy above who got a finish over that top 5 guy aswell to add so that argument can't even be used for Leon either really IMO.

In recent memory, post UFC 200 only WB and Maia have pulled together more than 1 top 5 win before a title shot.

So based on that, why is there now a sudden insistence on Leon having to prove himself by fighting another top guy? I get the Nate fight he got wobbled at the end but was also winning 24 minutes of the fight. Granted guys like Cerrone and Nelson aren't as great as they were once regarded on the same streak but then there's guys like Luque on this streak whose now a top 5 guy himself.

I think considering the division at the top is full of guys coming off losses, giving it to the guy on a 9 fight streak doesn't seem the most outrageous of suggestions.

I'm not saying Leon SHOULD be the next challenger, I get both sides of the argument but it's moreso, everyone insistent on him facing more top 5 guys when that's never been the path for previous challengers? Is it because you're still not impressed with Leon, or just don't like the guys personality etc?

Leon is in fact in a 1 fight win streak… just saying…

 

[Jose Beehive]

Askren was ranked #5 when Masvidal ended him.

Was a dubious ranking for him though, off the back of the controversial Lawler fight.

 

[Striker Fox]

he deserves it he hasn't lost in a while, not his fault not many ppl wanna fight him

Edwards openly ducked Wonderboy, then accepted a washed up LW who isn't even ranked. He doesn't deserve anything.