The Just Bleed Myth.

[Cro Cop Is Back]

This thread needs a drunk Tank Abbott post.

 

[bigeastgi43]

Those jackasses are decorated war veterans from the famed unit of marine Navajo Code Talkers.

And you presume to lecture others about disrespect?

so "being a decorated war veteran from the famed unit of marine Navajo Code Talkers" automatically makes it impossible to be a jackass or asshole?

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Well done for finding a picture of a couple of Native American who support the Redskins.

Here's a study suggesting that 67% of Native Americans find the name racist: http://cips.csusb.edu/docs/PressRelease.pdf

Here's the problem with your hilariously defective argument 'your feelings do not assign meaning to my intentions.' Your intentions do not simply occur and cease forever. In the case of naming a team, and keeping the name- This is in all respects a continuing action. Before such a time as you are aware that your actions are offensive, you could purport to have 'clean' intentions. Even honourable intentions.

However, at each juncture where you receive new information, and you continue the original act, you are acting with new intentions. Your original intentions ARE NOW irrelevant. These new intentions in this case would be "I intend to continue my traditions, at the expense of your offence." As you correctly stated, this makes you an asshole.

I was also correct in stating that breeding hyper-sensitivity to control the behavior of others in an ongoing PR battle makes you an asshole, too.

As gar as the study goes, you will have to forgive me if I am slow to take the word of a self-described "poet-scholar-activist against stereotypes of Native peoples" as being unbiased until I have time to look at his methodology more closely. This is especially true when he claims "the large majority of American Indians, when properly identified and polled, find the team name, suggesting that previous polls came up with different results.
offensive".

 

[bigeastgi43]

I was also correct in stating that breeding hyper-sensitivity to control the behavior of others in an ongoing PR battle makes you an asshole, too.

As gar as the study goes, you will have to forgive me if I am slow to take the word of a self-described "poet-scholar-activist against stereotypes of Native peoples" as being unbiased until I have time to look at his methodology more closely. This is especially true when he claims "the large majority of American Indians, when properly identified and polled, find the team name, suggesting that previous polls came up with different results.
offensive".

and you do realize that you're defending something that most native americans find disrespectful. takes a special kind of dumb to do that

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

so "being a decorated war veteran from the famed unit of marine Navajo Code Talkers" automatically makes it impossible to be a jackass or asshole?

Not at all. But it does mean almost everyone, with the notable exception of yourself, views them with a measure of respect.

For a person so outraged about symbolic disrespect toward Native Americans, you were very quick to show actual disrespect toward individual Native Americans when their participation in a Redskins event did not fit the narrative you were advancing. You are acting the part of the hypocrite here.

 

[SgtElias]

I was also correct in stating that breeding hyper-sensitivity to control the behavior of others in an ongoing PR battle makes you an asshole, too.

As gar as the study goes, you will have to forgive me if I am slow to take the word of a self-described "poet-scholar-activist against stereotypes of Native peoples" as being unbiased until I have time to look at his methodology more closely. This is especially true when he claims "the large majority of American Indians, when properly identified and polled, find the team name, suggesting that previous polls came up with different results.
offensive".

I just wanted to point out to you that your reasoning regarding original intentions was flawed. I'm glad you understand continuing actions and breaks in the chain of intent now.

As far as the study goes, you needn't trouble yourself. I don't claim it is definitive. Though I'd love to see you find a study by ANYONE (feel free to raid Fox News) that claims a sample size of 400 or more, that suggests that Native Americans DON'T find the name offensive. But then again, you've already made it clear that you don't care how they feel.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

and you do realize that you're defending something that most native americans find disrespectful. takes a special kind of dumb to do that

You really think there is something dumb about holding a minority view?

So we should just hold votes on every subject to help define what is disrespectful? Lol. I wonder how many Indians thought the term was disrespectful before the long duree of academic activism educated them about how terrible the name of a football team was?

I have no problem with Native Americans whose feelings are wounded by the name of a sports team. I simply agree with the large minority of them who think there is no issue.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

But then again, you've already made it clear that you don't care how they feel.

Not at all. I have made it clear that their feelings being hurt does not give them a moral stance from which to judge the intentions of others. That way lies the social chaos of moral relativism.

 

[bigeastgi43]

Not at all. But it does mean almost everyone, with the notable exception of yourself, views them with a measure of respect.

For a person so outraged about symbolic disrespect toward Native Americans, you were very quick to show actual disrespect toward individual Native Americans when their participation in a Redskins event did not fit the narrative you were advancing. You are acting the part of the hypocrite here.

you dont repect them because you think they're redskins. anyone dumb enough support the very thing that belittles their race is a jackass. doesn't matter if you're a vet. (i think the okc bomber was a vet)

 

[SgtElias]

Not at all. I have made it clear that their feelings being hurt does not give them a moral stance from which to judge the intentions of others. That way lies the social chaos of moral relativism.

I get the sense that you're a Redskins fan. (I only say this because I inferred it from "in the manner I see fit.") I am not. If we're really going to be fair and look for bias, perhaps this should be the starting point.

There is such a thing as 'oblique intent.' In this case, your oblique intent is to cause offence. You have to own up to ALL the reasonably foreseeable consequences of an action.

 

[bigeastgi43]

You really think there is something dumb about holding a minority view?

So we should just hold votes on every subject to help define what is disrespectful? Lol. I wonder how many Indians thought the term was disrespectful before the long duree of academic activism educated them about how terrible the name of a football team was?

I have no problem with Native Americans whose feelings are wounded by the name of a sports team. I simply agree with the large minority of them who think there is no issue.

thats the same shit people from NAMBLA say


being a minority view has nothing to do with it. plain and simple most native americans say you are being disrespectful and you tell them "no we're showing you honor mr redskin indian." like i said special kind of dumb.

 

[bigeastgi43]

I get the sense that you're a Redskins fan. (I only say this because I inferred it from "in the manner I see fit.") I am not. If we're really going to be fair and look for bias, perhaps this should be the starting point.

There is such a thing as 'oblique intent.' In this case, your oblique intent is to cause offence. You have to own up to ALL the reasonably foreseeable consequences of an action.

i need someone like you to come to the bar with me lol

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

I get the sense that you're a Redskins fan. (I only say this because I inferred it from "in the manner I see fit.") I am not. If we're really going to be fair and look for bias, perhaps this should be the starting point.

I hate the Redskins on principle, so you are barking up the wrong tree there. The only Washington team I root for is the Generals. But even if I were a fan, that bias would not undermine any of the arguments I have made.

This is the end game of judging intent via the subjective reactions of others besides the actor or author of the words or actions being judged. Everyone has to subject themselves to psychological inspection from complete strangers trying to divine whether or not they really meant to offend others. I have no desire to submit to some emotional shaman trying to exorcise my latent racist tendencies that only he can see.

There is such a thing as 'oblique intent.' In this case, your oblique intent is to cause offence. You have to own up to ALL the reasonably foreseeable consequences of an action.

Tripe. Bullshit. Poppycock. I do not own the hurt feelings of someone outraged by the existence of the Washington Redskins logo, and I had no intention, oblique (lol!) or otherwise to hurt their feelings. Is it too much to ask that adults own their own feelings? I simply do not want to live in a society where the feelings of some are protected by impinging on the rights of others.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

thats the same shit people from NAMBLA say

Ooh. Burn. I am a bit disappointed you did not find a way to invoke Hitler, but NAMBLA is not bad as far argument ad absurdem goes.

Just to be clear are you arguing that siding with a minority view is inherently dumb and similar to being a member of NAMBLA? Because I cannot find another way to read your remarks.

 

[Talent]

td;dr

For me, I just lack the patience so all of these jack of all trades, master of none fighters. They take fights to the ground when they lack submission or ground and pound skills. They stand up and strike despite fundamental flaws. It's really quite shitty. I only tune in to the important fights.

 

[welcometohavoc]

Actually, I always considered Just Bleed fans more of a modern thing. When the WWE crowd started watching

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

you dont repect them because you think they're redskins. anyone dumb enough support the very thing that belittles their race is a jackass. doesn't matter if you're a vet. (i think the okc bomber was a vet)

You are angry at me because you think I am disrespectful of Native Americans.

Yet you have taken and repeatedly defended the position that Native Americans who participate in Redskins events are jackasses. You maintain this view even when shown that these particular Native Americans are amongst the most respected war heros in the US, a reputation that cannot be separated from their Navajo identity.

Spoiler

You should read up on the subject. Doris Paul's book The Navajo Code Talkers was the best, although Collins' The Windtalkers is more popular and cheaply available. The movie based on that book sucked imo.

You are the only person in the thread actually being directly disrespectful of any Native Americans. The irony seems lost on you, but please continue explaining why you think they are jackasses, because some of us find your lack of self-awareness regarding your own hypocrisy comical.

 

[SgtElias]

I hate the Redskins on principle, so you are barking up the wrong tree there. The only Washington team I root for is the Generals. But even if I were a fan, that bias would not undermine any of the arguments I have made.

This is the end game of judging intent via the subjective reactions of others besides the actor or author of the words or actions being judged. Everyone has to subject themselves to psychological inspection from complete strangers trying to divine whether or not they really meant to offend others. I have no desire to submit to some emotional shaman trying to exorcise my latent racist tendencies that only he can see.



Tripe. Bullshit. Poppycock. I do not own the hurt feelings of someone outraged by the existence of the Washington Redskins logo, and I had no intention, oblique (lol!) or otherwise to hurt their feelings. Is it too much to ask that adults own their own feelings? I simply do not want to live in a society where the feelings of some are protected by impinging on the rights of others.

When you posted the picture of the Navajo soldiers, you seemed like you were desperately fishing for evidence to support a claim. This is a most common mark of those who have taken a stance on the issue long before you heard any substantive facts about it. I suggest to you that this is a mindless way to live.

We already do judge the intent of others by subjective reactions of others. It's a massive and incredibly important part of trial by jury. Oh look, civilisation hasn't devolved into the scenario you outlined. What a surprise. That place you say you don't want to live in? This place where the rights of some are impinged on by the feelings of others- You already live there. This place existed for hundreds of years before you were born, and it will exist long after you're gone.

You're laughing at the term oblique intent and as a result I'm laughing at you. You sound ignorant. You personally don't have oblique intent in this situation. You don't have a say. You're not responsible for naming the team or keeping the team name. The team's ownership / management DO have oblique intent.

An education for you:

"Oblique intent: a person has oblique intent when the event is a natural consequence of a voluntary act and they foresee it as such. The 'natural consequence' definition was replaced in R v Woollin with the 'virtually certain' test. A person is now held to intend a consequence (obliquely) when that consequence is a virtually certain consequence of their action, and they knew it to be a virtually certain consequence. The first leg of this test has been condemned as unnecessary:[2] a person should be held as intending a consequence if (s)he believed it to be a virtually certain consequence, regardless of whether it was in fact virtually certain."

This approach is lifted from English Law (American Law has a piece-meal equivalent), but it is perfectly applicable to the general concept of culpability and accountability. If you can't handle this approach to accountability, I call you a fool who looks to recklessness and feigned ignorance as excuses for wrong-doing.

You can obfuscate your stance as much as you like, but the basic summary of what you believe is "I don't care if I offend people as much as I care about some stupid sports tradition. If they're offended, it's either their fault, or it's just too bad."

The fact that you clearly feel this way makes you an asshole. The fact that you're trying to pretend that you still give even the slightest shit about the people who this offends or what's good for society makes you a delusion asshole.

 

[Wayweary]

Fall the fuck back! We are just having fun. You are the epitamy of what people with lives think JB fans are, overly aggressive for no damn reason. Its easier to tell since you have one of the most emotionally retarded, not just fighters, but person of some fame in Nick in your sig.

Never heard anyone sa Sonnen pitter patters, he is a LnP guy.

Sonnen is a hybrid. He lays on you and tries to smother you with pillow fists.