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Social The jubilee: a forgiveness of all debt every 50 years in ancient Israel

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by superpunch, Jan 14, 2021.

  1. superpunch Gold Belt

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    The Jubilee (Hebrew: יובל‎ yōḇel; Yiddish: yoyvl) is the year at the end of seven cycles of shmita (Sabbatical years) and, according to biblical regulations, had a special impact on the ownership and management of land in the Land of Israel. According to the Book of Leviticus, Hebrew slaves and prisoners would be freed, debts would be forgiven, and the mercies of God would be particularly manifest.

    So, apparently every 50 years, Israel would just forgive all debt and free all the slaves. Does that mean that the democrats, in cancelling student loan debt and wanting healthcare for everyone even the poor and the sick (the republicans want to deny healthcare to the sick, even tried to repeal that regulation 2 years ago), are closer to god?
     
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  2. Oceanmachine Brown Belt

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    Obviously. The debt was never meant to be FOREVER
     
  3. jk7707 Red Belt

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  4. Cfpcommitteemember Orange Belt

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    So that's where all our foreign aid went!!!
     
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  5. Garnet_StrongerThanYou Brown Belt

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    Lol at Jewbilee.

     
  6. JSN choo-CHOO!

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    Maybe they’ll finally forgive the US of the debt we somehow owe them for saving them from the Holocaust.
     
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  7. jeremyemilio Silver Belt

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    I've heard historians say it only actually happened the once in Israel. Also, it really just changes the nature of the loans. I'm not going to give you a 30 year mortgage if Jubilee is three years away. I'll assess your ability to repay me in 3 years. Or I'll give you a 3 year mortgage on your kitchen pantry. And then if you want ownership of the rest of the house, you'll need to take out a 27 year mortgage on it. If you don't, I'll need to buy back the pantry... or some such arrangement.

    That's kind of how it worked in Israel. Except financing in ancient Israel was kind of the opposite of what it is in the west, today. So you could sell your land to pay a debt, or sell yourself into a form of slavery. But with jubilee coming, the purchaser would base their price on the value of holding your land, or having you as a servant, for the time remaining until Jubilee. It was more like a rental fee than a purchase.

    People new the terms very clearly. Lenders and borrowers new when the term was up and negotiated based on that knowledge. There were no free rides, as modern people try to pretend. I'm not buying a car from you at full price the day before Jubilee and then giving it back to you tomorrow.
     
  8. Brazilian HKD Brown Belt

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    Interestong. Mind givong some book references to read later on? Thanks
     
  9. Billy no mates The Pub bore .

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    No you silly jews , Jubilee is when you drink tea and eat little sandwiches with the crusts cut of and talk about how great the Queen is .
     
  10. Natural Order Naughty by Nurture

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    Lol @ the implied benevolence of money lenders.
     
  11. Denter Silver Belt

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    Unironically, in this instance, yes. Modern debt isn't exactly like ancient debt, but non-dischargeable debt is getting closer than I'm comfortable with.
     
  12. Broke Lester Brown Belt

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    {<huh}
    Jubilee is a member of the X-men.
     
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  13. Hadron90 Red Belt

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    More than 50 years have passed since slavery ended. I guess we are forgiven of those reparations.
     
  14. jeremyemilio Silver Belt

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    There's been a fair amount written, I'm sure, because Biblical scholars love this sort of thing where the Bible intersects with broadly accepted History. But you don't need to go far to find the bit I was just writing about. It comes directly from the primary source:

    Leviticus 25:14–17
    14When you make a sale to your neighbor or buy from your neighbor, you shall not cheat one another. 15When you buy from your neighbor, you shall pay only for the number of years since the jubilee; the seller shall charge you only for the remaining crop years. 16If the years are more, you shall increase the price, and if the years are fewer, you shall diminish the price; for it is a certain number of harvests that are being sold to you. 17You shall not cheat one another, but you shall fear your God; for I am the Lord your God.

    Leviticus 25.47-50

    47If resident aliens among you prosper, and if any of your kin fall into difficulty with one of them and sell themselves to an alien, or to a branch of the alien’s family, 48after they have sold themselves they shall have the right of redemption; one of their brothers may redeem them, 49or their uncle or their uncle’s son may redeem them, or anyone of their family who is of their own flesh may redeem them; or if they prosper they may redeem themselves. 50They shall compute with the purchaser the total from the year when they sold themselves to the alien until the jubilee year; the price of the sale shall be applied to the number of years: the time they were with the owner shall be rated as the time of a hired laborer.

    (The lending bit doesn't fit so well because Israelites weren't really permitted to make loans to one another for interest.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2021
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  15. spacegnome Brown Belt Platinum Member

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    yes it does. profits over people and mean spirited self reliance and coldness towards the least among us are evil. Christianity itself, an extension of judaism, is completely built upon undeserved grace. its a giant handout and we are supposed to treat others the way God treats us.

    the dems barely have any convictions anymore as they have slipped into patristic nihilism and corruption, but the progressives (often atheists) have a meaningful vision for this county that is closer by far economically to Christ than any other party.
     
  16. Yehudim Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Poverty stricken hands typed up this post.
     
  17. Natural Order Naughty by Nurture

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    What does recognizing the vile practices of money lending have to do with wealth or poverty?

    Our household gross is 160k a year, doing alright mang!
     
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  18. jeremyemilio Silver Belt

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    I can honestly say that I don't understand the vision on loan forgiveness. What does the world that you are imagining look like?

    Is it a world without loans at all? If people don't need to pay back loans, doesn't that make loans obsolete? I mean, who's going to loan you money of you don't need to pay it back?

    Or is it just a one time thing? And why? Do we think that people in the future will enjoy their debt?

    Or is it something we want to continue into the future, through government funding, but only for people who don't pay off their loan after a certain number of years? And wouldn't the result of that be that no one would ever pay off their loans?

    And is it for all loans, or just student loans? And if it's just student loans, wouldn't that punish people who don't take out student loans, or who pay off their loans? Wouldn't it just result in everyone paying their education through student loans, since they wouldn't need to pay them back?

    And if that's the case, then why loans at all? Why not just pay for all college education?

    And if we do that, is that for everyone? Like if I want to go to the most expensive University I can get into, and stay there indefinitely collecting endless undergrad degrees, is that being funded by government?

    I'm not picking a fight, here. I honestly don't understand the vision.

    Now if you're arguing that people should be able to file for bankruptcy protection for student loan debt, I'm with you. But that doesn't come without ramifications. This isn't like filing for bankruptcy and having your home foreclosed on. There's no equity there. Banks are going to be a lot more picky about who gets a student loan if you can file for bankruptcy. And they're probably going to want to know what you're planning to take as your major.
     
  19. spacegnome Brown Belt Platinum Member

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    i dont particularly care about the issue of loan forgiveness to be honest. im more interested in the spirit behind the notion-- and others like it. did you know the jews were not allowed to charge interest on loans either?

    loan forgiveness back then was a solution that fit a specific historical context. its the spirit behind the idea that we must embrace imo.

    the discussion has to begin with a mandate that we are our brothers keepers and that the goal is to lift everyone out of poverty and eliminate social classes by bringing everyone up into a higher level of living and this vision should include healing generational pain and suffering transmitted from parents to children.

    this has to be done with God's power as the foundational driving force behind what we do and a recognition that pure ambition and greed and having absurd amounts of wealth is deeply sinful and immoral.

    we just have to rethink what we are doing here on this planet and why and have an actual vision that transcends pure self interest.
     

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