The Joys of Communism

[Handsome Bruce]

How about we look at France, Germany, Switzerland, Norway, Denmark, UK, and Sweden instead?

They are all purely, 100 percent social democratic countries? I am quite sure Sweden is very pro-capitalist. @Wadtucket

 

[Rational Poster]

They are all purely, 100 percent social democratic countries? I am quite sure Sweden is very pro-capitalist. @Wadtucket

The Swedish Social Democratic Party (Swedish: Sveriges socialdemokratiska arbetareparti, S/SAP), officially the Social Democratic Workers' Party of Sweden, contesting elections as The Workers Party – The Social Democrats (Swedish: Arbetarepartiet – Socialdemokraterna) and usually referred to simply as the Social Democrats (Swedish: Socialdemokraterna), is a social-democratic party. Founded in 1889, the SAP is the oldest and largest political party in Sweden.

From the mid-1930s to the 1980s, the Social Democratic Party won more than 40% of the vote. From 1932 to 1976, the SAP was continuously in government. Currently, the party has been heading the government since 2014 under Prime Minister Stefan Löfven, who has been the party leader since 2012.


Of course they were into capitalism as well. That's like the whole point of a social democracy. You use the excess wealth generated by capitalism to fund social programs and uplift everyone in society.

 

[BEER]

Wow, didn't know that Joe Biden was a commie puppet! This changes everything if you really think about it.

If Biden were a commie puppet, I'd be more willing to vote for him tbh.

 

[Milan]

https://www.equinor.com/en/about-us/corporate-governance/the-norwegian-state-as-shareholder.html

Read that. What does it say about Equinor? Does it say they are state owned? Spoilers, it does!

67% majority stake buddy.
And the state does not own all means of production.
I'm sorry, but literally all economics reject your proposal that Norway, or other Nordic countries are socialist.

We already have a progressive tax system. We have for decades. Wtf are you talking about? Lmao.

Yeah, the U.S. does, we do. What's your point?
What are you arguing?

If Bernie implemented every last thing that he wanted. We would still be less socialist than Germany, Norway, the UK, etc etc. Jesus Christ educate yourself. This is embarrassing for you.

"etc, etc" < lol. There is no point in arguing "etc, etc":
UK colleges are not tuition free.
Dutch healthcare is mixed public/private.
etc etc etc

Nordic model is as capitalist as it can get with low corporate tax rates. They can get away with high income tax and a solid social security system because of aforementioned reasons (low cost of living).

Again, what are you actually arguing?
"democratic socialism" refutes the idea of capitalism, but you they want the things that these capitalist countries have?
Why don't you start with reading the Wiki pages of "socialism" and "democratic socialism" and "social democracy" < ( BIG FUCKING HINT RIGHT THERE )

 

[Fawlty]

If Biden were a commie puppet, I'd be more willing to vote for him tbh.

That's the hilarity of these assertions by Republican chuds. Same went for Bill Clinton and Obama, same "commie puppet" rhetoric juxtaposed with the serious disappointment by the left at how moderate both were.

 

[AndroidRage]

You are right. A lot of people are just dumb when it comes to saying: "This isn't real capitalism." Thinking there is some kind of perfect system that will run without flaws and flawed human beings getting in the way is ridiculous. The reality is that capitalism, even at its worst, is still the better option. Communism, Socialism and Democratic Socialism (<Lmaoo>) have a long track record of making countries turn for the worse. Why not work on making capitalism better instead of tossing it away and replacing it with something proven not to work?

What is the difference between socialism and social democracy?

While having socialism as a long-term goal, social democracy seeks to humanize capitalism and create the conditions for it to lead to greater democratic, egalitarian and solidaristic outcomes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soc...cratic, egalitarian and solidaristic outcomes.

This is what Europe has and what Progressives like Sanders propose. Is that throwing out capitalism? Or is it doing things like regulating it and making a better social safety net for people? Would you call what most European countries have socialism or capitalism? That is what I see people like Sanders proposing. You can call it whatever you like. Keynesian capitalism, Social democracy, democratic socialism, whatever.

 

[Handsome Bruce]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy#:~:text=While having socialism as a,democratic, egalitarian and solidaristic outcomes.

This is what Europe has and what Progressives like Sanders propose. Is that throwing out capitalism? Or is it doing things like regulating it and making a better social safety net for people? Would you call what most European countries have socialism or capitalism? That is what I see people like Sanders proposing. You can call it whatever you like. Keynesian capitalism, Social democracy, democratic socialism, whatever.

I would say most European countries have mixed economies where they generate wealth and use part of that wealth to support the social safety net and social welfare.

 

[Handsome Bruce]

The Swedish Social Democratic Party (Swedish: Sveriges socialdemokratiska arbetareparti, S/SAP), officially the Social Democratic Workers' Party of Sweden, contesting elections as The Workers Party – The Social Democrats (Swedish: Arbetarepartiet – Socialdemokraterna) and usually referred to simply as the Social Democrats (Swedish: Socialdemokraterna), is a social-democratic party. Founded in 1889, the SAP is the oldest and largest political party in Sweden.

From the mid-1930s to the 1980s, the Social Democratic Party won more than 40% of the vote. From 1932 to 1976, the SAP was continuously in government. Currently, the party has been heading the government since 2014 under Prime Minister Stefan Löfven, who has been the party leader since 2012.


Of course they were into capitalism as well. That's like the whole point of a social democracy. You use the excess wealth generated by capitalism to fund social programs and uplift everyone in society.

Is Sweden Socialist? No, but...

The myth that Sweden is a utopian paradise where all the social problems have been solved and that you can have high growth with high taxes has been touted by Bernie Sanders as well as the many Millennials that follow him.

The glory days for Sweden economically took place prior to the 1960s, when they had a free economy, low regulation and lots of wealth. Between 1870 and 1950, Sweden had the highest per capita income growth in the world and became one of the richest countries...

In the 1960s, Sweden started to redistribute wealth, which brought wealth creation to a halt. By the mid-1990s, the country had growing economic problems because it continued to redistribute wealth it wasn’t creating.

In 1994, Sweden began implementing the following measures designed to reverse this trend:

• Reduce Regulation
• Reduce Government Spending
• Reform their Welfare Programs
• Shrink their Government

Many view Sweden as socialist. However, the country is, in fact, very pro-capitalism, but does it with redistribution through taxes. Personal income is taxed at a rate of 61.85 percent, plus a 7 percent social security tax rate for employees.

 

[Rational Poster]

Is Sweden Socialist? No, but...

The myth that Sweden is a utopian paradise where all the social problems have been solved and that you can have high growth with high taxes has been touted by Bernie Sanders as well as the many Millennials that follow him.

The glory days for Sweden economically took place prior to the 1960s, when they had a free economy, low regulation and lots of wealth. Between 1870 and 1950, Sweden had the highest per capita income growth in the world and became one of the richest countries...

In the 1960s, Sweden started to redistribute wealth, which brought wealth creation to a halt. By the mid-1990s, the country had growing economic problems because it continued to redistribute wealth it wasn’t creating.

In 1994, Sweden began implementing the following measures designed to reverse this trend:

• Reduce Regulation
• Reduce Government Spending
• Reform their Welfare Programs
• Shrink their Government

Many view Sweden as socialist. However, the country is, in fact, very pro-capitalism, but does it with redistribution through taxes. Personal income is taxed at a rate of 61.85 percent, plus a 7 percent social security tax rate for employees.

I didn't say it was socialist you muppet. I said it was a social democracy.

The first line of your source that you didn't even read.

"The country is in fact very pro capitalism, but does redistribution through taxes."

 

[Handsome Bruce]

I didn't say it was socialist you muppet. I said it was a social democracy.

The first line of your source that you didn't even read.

"The country is in fact very pro capitalism, but does redistribution through taxes."

MSNBC:

Bernie Sanders is wrong on democratic socialism in Sweden, and everywhere else

“That whole thing with democratic socialism was absolutely impossible. It just didn’t work."

In fact, when we examine Nordic politics, economy and history as exemplified by Sweden, we find that the Northern European success story was not achieved thanks to a welfare model funded by high taxes, but perhaps despite it. It is high time Sanders stops misleading his followers on this score.

During the following century, Sweden introduced extensive economic laissez-faire reforms deregulating the financial sector and promoting free enterprise, free competition and free trade. These reforms prompted Sweden’s transition to capitalism.

A subsequent financial crisis in the 1990s saw the growth of the gross domestic product sink and unemployment spike, while the government raised interest rates to a staggering 500 percent in an effort to avoid devaluing its currency. Sweden’s long-standing social democratic Minister of Finance Kjell‐Olof Feldt concluded: “That whole thing with democratic socialism was absolutely impossible. It just didn’t work. There was no other way to go than market reform.”

Since then, Sanders and his supporters should be aware, Sweden actually worked to revise its economic model based on lessons drawn from its recession. State-owned companies were sold and financial markets were deregulated; public monopolies were replaced with competition.

Rather than persistently suggesting that the American Dream can be realized by expanding government or raising taxes, it is time for Sanders and his comrades to go back to school and study history.

 

[Rational Poster]

MSNBC:

Bernie Sanders is wrong on democratic socialism in Sweden, and everywhere else

“That whole thing with democratic socialism was absolutely impossible. It just didn’t work."

In fact, when we examine Nordic politics, economy and history as exemplified by Sweden, we find that the Northern European success story was not achieved thanks to a welfare model funded by high taxes, but perhaps despite it. It is high time Sanders stops misleading his followers on this score.

During the following century, Sweden introduced extensive economic laissez-faire reforms deregulating the financial sector and promoting free enterprise, free competition and free trade. These reforms prompted Sweden’s transition to capitalism.

A subsequent financial crisis in the 1990s saw the growth of the gross domestic product sink and unemployment spike, while the government raised interest rates to a staggering 500 percent in an effort to avoid devaluing its currency. Sweden’s long-standing social democratic Minister of Finance Kjell‐Olof Feldt concluded: “That whole thing with democratic socialism was absolutely impossible. It just didn’t work. There was no other way to go than market reform.”

Since then, Sanders and his supporters should be aware, Sweden actually worked to revise its economic model based on lessons drawn from its recession. State-owned companies were sold and financial markets were deregulated; public monopolies were replaced with competition.

Rather than persistently suggesting that the American Dream can be realized by expanding government or raising taxes, it is time for Sanders and his comrades to go back to school and study history.

Garbage opinion piece is garbage.

 

[Corn Pop Hombre]

this thread is now unironically about the joys of socialism and communism

 

[rob mafia]

It's not.

These morons don't know the difference between communism, socialism and Democratic socialism.

...weird, i see an awful lot of hammer&sickles at these protests. can you tell me which part of socialism they represent?

 

[Handsome Bruce]

Garbage opinion piece is garbage.

Did you read the article? The long-standing finance minister of Sweden is quoted as saying: “That whole thing with democratic socialism was absolutely impossible. It just didn’t work. There was no other way to go than market reform.” The Swedish government then worked on reforming its economic model to be include more deregulation and competition.

The finance ministers opinion is garbage? I will take what he has to say over a troll like you.

 

[nostradumbass]

It's not.

These morons don't know the difference between communism, socialism and Democratic socialism.

Neither do you.

Half you idiots say " that wasn't real socialism" about the ussr, then bust out a hammer and sickle flag and call each other "comrade".

 

[skysolo]

Neither do you.

Half you idiots say " that wasn't real socialism" about the ussr, then bust out a hammer and sickle flag and call each other "comrade".

^ Look who's talking.

This wasn't even directly aimed at either of you but you both predictably took offense to it. Thus proving you are both in fact morons.

 

[Philo-Publius]

It's not.

These morons don't know the difference between communism, socialism and Democratic socialism.

^ Look who's talking.

 

[Philo-Publius]

How is that the left wing's platform in the USA?

I am a little surprised by it myself. lol

 

[nostradumbass]

This wasn't even directly aimed at you but you predictably took offense to it. Thus proving they are in fact a moron.

Lol, you get wrecked in every thread you post in post in because you don't know anything. You know 0 people from communist countries, your entire entire world view is based on envy and hating anyone who has more than you and think the country should revolve around your barista job.

 

[AndroidRage]

67% majority stake buddy.
And the state does not own all means of production.
I'm sorry, but literally all economics reject your proposal that Norway, or other Nordic countries are socialist.

Do me a favor. Google who owns Amazon and see what percentage of the company they own. Strange how Bezos can be considered the owner of Amazon at a bit over 11% of the total shares vs Norway not being considered the owner of Equinor at 67% of shares. So they own the means of production for oil. I don't recall Sanders proposing this. And this is what you call socialism right?

Yeah, the U.S. does, we do. What's your point?
What are you arguing?

You literally claimed progressive taxation was socialist and is how Democratic Socialists plan to redistribute wealth.

"etc, etc" < lol. There is no point in arguing "etc, etc":
UK colleges are not tuition free.
Dutch healthcare is mixed public/private.
etc etc etc

https://www.edmit.me/blog/countries-with-free-or-virtually-free-college-tuition

List of European countries where college tuition is free or nearly free. The most expensive college can possibly be in the UK is about 1/3 as much as the average cost for tuition here.

UK healthcare is completely state ran. From health insurance to the medical facilities. Medicare for all only has state ran health insurance and keeps privately ran medical facilities. So it too would be a mixed public/private.

Nordic model is as capitalist as it can get with low corporate tax rates. They can get away with high income tax and a solid social security system because of aforementioned reasons (low cost of living).

Norway is one of the most heavily taxed countries in the world with a total tax burden of roughly 45% of GDP– almost 4x Hong Kong and nearly twice the US.

VAT here is a whopping 25%. Personal income tax rates border 55%. Corporate profits tax ranges from 28% to as high as 78%. Norway even has a direct WEALTH TAX.

Again, what are you actually arguing?
"democratic socialism" refutes the idea of capitalism, but you they want the things that these capitalist countries have?
Why don't you start with reading the Wiki pages of "socialism" and "democratic socialism" and "social democracy" < ( BIG FUCKING HINT RIGHT THERE )

I know the difference between all 3. I also know Sanders incorrectly calls himself a democratic socialist when in reality he is a social democrat. You can tell by his policies. Perhaps he labeled himself this way because he knew he would be labeled a socialist no matter what so decided to own it.

Now, if those countries aren't socialist then how can they have similar policies to what Sanders has proposed? How can you call one socialist and another capitalist. They are either BOTH socialist or they are BOTH capitalist.