The Greatest of All? Time.

I agree. There is just a natural evolution of the human race and all of the advantages of knowledge, equipment and training practices make athletes, not just fighters, better, stronger and faster.

However, my personal criteria of measuring greatness in sports is how a particular competitor changes their sport. Would there be a Adrian Peterson if there had been no Jim Brown? A LeBron with no Michael Jordan? A Mayweather without an Ali/Robinson to come before him? I think not. And in that sense Mayweather has changed things, but not in the way Ali did. How many fighters have done Ali impressions over the years in and out of the ring with varying success?

if the human race were evolving wouldn't we be getting smarter but physically weaker? Not stating, just asking a rhetorical question. We've been forcefed so much stuff all of our lives we just don't use our own heads. Why would the race be getting stronger and faster when we don't even need strength and speed like we did 30,000 years ago. Another interesting "scientific" finding came out a couple years ago showing prehistoric man running after some kind of animal and using their measurements they were able to tell how fast he ran and they stated it would be faster than the fastest man alive today. Not telling you to change your mind, just question things a bit.
As far as your criteria for greatness, well i've always thought there were two seperate and maybe overlapping criteria. One is the impact on the sport and it's advancement and improvement, the other is strictly how these fighters would do without all of that, head to head with whoever else. For example, context wise, no fighter even comes close to Dempsey who brought so much to the style and improvement of boxing as well as how he was in comparison to his contempories. However, i don't think Dempsey could beat Tyson, Holmes, Louis, Ali even though he made it possible for them to be as good as they were. I've said above how primitive and godawful fighters of the pre 30's and even some of the thrities fighters look. Benny Leonard, Jack Johnson not only do not look good enough to beat the other greats, they don't even look good enough to beat a promising amateur.
 
Agreed. Today's athletes focus on how to get everything done fast and all at once. Too many alternatives and not just sucking it up and doing what has been proven to actually get the job done and then some. Boxing is not a game and neither should the training be, if it results in Long and excruciating training...they did it back then so why not do it now "Improved athletes v2.0?"

they really did, i've read accounts of Jim Jeffries training for several hours. He lost, what was it, 100 pounds for his ill fated Johnson fight? It's pretty common for fighters today to train an hour or so a day. Not that this is a rule, everyone is different but it's usually no more than a few hours out of the day.
 
they really did, i've read accounts of Jim Jeffries training for several hours. He lost, what was it, 100 pounds for his ill fated Johnson fight? It's pretty common for fighters today to train an hour or so a day. Not that this is a rule, everyone is different but it's usually no more than a few hours out of the day.

Amazing, as well as some of the situations Duran put himself in.
 
if the human race were evolving wouldn't we be getting smarter but physically weaker? Not stating, just asking a rhetorical question. We've been forcefed so much stuff all of our lives we just don't use our own heads. Why would the race be getting stronger and faster when we don't even need strength and speed like we did 30,000 years ago. Another interesting "scientific" finding came out a couple years ago showing prehistoric man running after some kind of animal and using their measurements they were able to tell how fast he ran and they stated it would be faster than the fastest man alive today. Not telling you to change your mind, just question things a bit.

Well, in using my advanced 21st century mind I was able to derive that physical evolution has occurred in humans over the past 100 years as evidenced by the Heavyweight Champion in 1908 being referred to as the "Galveston Giant" at a whopping 6'1" 195lbs. which is significantly smaller than the HW champ in 2013 who is 6'6" 245lbs.
 
i was shocked to learn primo carnera was only 6 '5
 
he looks 8 foot 12 in this pic


PRIMO-CARNERA.jpg
 
i was shocked to learn primo carnera was only 6 '5

It is pretty amazing when you hear how he was described. Guy was only 3" taller than me and was considered a gigantic freak.
 
It is pretty amazing when you hear how he was described. Guy was only 3" taller than me and was considered a gigantic freak.

yet he was a giant of that time,as evidenced by every goddamned picture of him. Proportion wise and everything
 
Well, in using my advanced 21st century mind I was able to derive that physical evolution has occurred in humans over the past 100 years as evidenced by the Heavyweight Champion in 1908 being referred to as the "Galveston Giant" at a whopping 6'1" 195lbs. which is significantly smaller than the HW champ in 2013 who is 6'6" 245lbs.

ya, i know all of that what i don't get is why? Human beings for the most part don't have to hunt down food, run from tigers and lions and so forth so why would we be evolving physically when most human beings and definitely most americans are getting less and less physical. I've read that co2 levels in the air have increased over the past hundred years so that may explain why human beings have grown bigger, supposedly it stimulates a growth hormone. At any rate, boxing isn't all about size, Joe louis beat giants, so did dempsey, Tyson was only listed at 5-11.5 and that is in the modern era, he also had a reach of only 72, bigger is not better, Ali was the perfect sized heavyweight, any bigger than that and you're losing a lot more than you're gaining. The klitschkos are really too big, Lewis was a little too big too.
 
im taller than everyone
 
yet he was a giant of that time,as evidenced by every goddamned picture of him. Proportion wise and everything

He was in the circus at one time because a man of his dimensions was considered such a marvel.
 
and im still a giant
 
ya, i know all of that what i don't get is why? Human beings for the most part don't have to hunt down food, run from tigers and lions and so forth so why would we be evolving physically when most human beings and definitely most americans are getting less and less physical. I've read that co2 levels in the air have increased over the past hundred years so that may explain why human beings have grown bigger, supposedly it stimulates a growth hormone. At any rate, boxing isn't all about size, Joe louis beat giants, so did dempsey, Tyson was only listed at 5-11.5 and that is in the modern era, he also had a reach of only 72, bigger is not better, Ali was the perfect sized heavyweight, any bigger than that and you're losing a lot more than you're gaining. The klitschkos are really too big, Lewis was a little too big too.

It probably has a lot to do with nutrition and physical exercise/exertion. The hunter gatherers ate just enough to stay alive and functional. We eat and exercise for pleasure. More calories to burn, more muscle gets put on, training techniques are made more efficient etc.
 
Hearns had a glass jaw. I'd wreck that dude.
 
It probably has a lot to do with nutrition and physical exercise/exertion. The hunter gatherers ate just enough to stay alive and functional. We eat and exercise for pleasure. More calories to burn, more muscle gets put on, training techniques are made more efficient etc.

agreed. theres just alot more we can do to make ourselves stronger for specific athletic tasks
 
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