The Greatest of All? Time.

[Da City of God]

I don't think you're really remembering things accurately. People thought Tyson was unbeatable when he actually appeared to be unbeatable. You take a look at Mike Spinks career and then what Tyson did to the guy- why wouldn't people think he was unstoppable? He was the youngest fighter to be lineal champ at HW ever and still is. Not only that, he barely broke a sweat doing it.

Once he lost, people started talking about him like you do. People just don't hold certain fighters to the same standards as others. Ali's fight with Cooper for example. Make everything about that fight exactly the same except have it take place today- Ali loses by KO. But no, we ignore what happened there and call Angelo Dundee a genius. Never mind that Cooper knocked Ali out.

I stuggle to think of a HW who wasn't exposed at one point or another aside from Marciano, and if you dig a little, you realize Marciano fought in arguably one of the shallowest talent pools in HW boxing history.

qft

 

[amhlilhaus]

i could see money waiting till the last fight to fight pac. doing it as a retirement fight for both men would be the way to squeeze the last cent

Floyd isn't going to retire cleanly. he's a spendthrift and will have to keep fighting, and the longer he fights, the undefeated champion father time will catch him and Floyd will start doing a roy jones career path.

Floyd will NOT retire undefeated.

 

[WatchMeDoMe**]

The man was the universally recognised Heavyweight Champion of the World

Show some respect

At 21 years old. A HW no less at such a young age.

 

[Seano]

Floyd isn't going to retire cleanly. he's a spendthrift and will have to keep fighting, and the longer he fights, the undefeated champion father time will catch him and Floyd will start doing a roy jones career path.

Floyd will NOT retire undefeated.

I think he will. I think this showtime deal will be it for Floyd. Who is out there thats going to beat him? I'm having a hard time imagining competitive matchups for his next 4 fights.

Danny Garcia? I'm a big fan of the kid but I don't see anything about his style that makes hima favorite over Floyd.

If Amir manages to not get stopped by Alexander, thats what we're probably going to see. We all know Khan has nothing for Floyd.

Maybe someone like Keith Thurman can get a few good wins and be in contention but seriously, is he going tobeat Floyd? Not likely.

 

[PHATV]

So were the old time b-ball players as good as LeBron James?
Old time hitters could swing with Pujols?
A running back from the 60s can compare with an AP?


All athletes have progressed exponentially from the "old days".
Strength, cardio, natural speed and power.

Boxers included.

 

[Da City of God]

So were the old time b-ball players as good as LeBron James?
Old time hitters could swing with Pujols?
A running back from the 60s can compare with an AP?


All athletes have progressed exponentially from the "old days".
Strength, cardio, natural speed and power.

Boxers included.

So have the rules and conditions...whats you're point?

 

[PHATV]

My point is that the top 150-pounders in 1913 can't hold a candle to the top 150-pounders in 2013.

 

[mozfonky]

but why is it so hard to see in boxing? I know nothing, absolutely nothing about football, basketball, baseball but it's obvious to an untrained eye like mine's how much has improved. In boxing it isn't like that unless (for me) we count the fighters before 1930 who all look primitive to me.

 

[PHATV]

I think because they ALL move in that direction, so it's harder to discern because all the fighters are that much better.
I really think if you took a top-10 fighter from today, they are a world-beater 100 years ago.

But I know what you mean. You look at old fights and they look like they would be fine today. They probably would be fine to a point.
I just think overall, fighters are better today than in 1950, or even 1970.
And that doesn't mean that the GOAT can't come from a bygone era, because they certainly can. I just mean overall athleticism is greater/deeper.

I guess another way I look at it is that a great from long ago might be very good today and even hold the strap, but I don't think they would be as dominant as they were in the 40s or 50s because the competition is that much better as well.

 

[Da City of God]

My point is that the top 150-pounders in 1913 can't hold a candle to the top 150-pounders in 2013.

I think the top fighters back then would have more success fighting against today's top competition under today's conditions than the other way around. Anything Before the 15 round change, rope change, etc.

 

[mozfonky]

I don't know, i just don't know. A lot of a person's makeup is due to the conditions they have lived under. You know, I was reading fascinatingly about Evan Tanner and how he died in the desert. I studied hyperthermia and it sounded like about the worst way to die in existence. But you know what? It is a pretty well known fact that Apache indians would run 50 miles or more under these conditions a hundred and fifty years ago. Then we have an athlete who can't even walk a few miles. Not everything improves necessarily.

 

[Seano]

I don't know, i just don't know. A lot of a person's makeup is due to the conditions they have lived under. You know, I was reading fascinatingly about Evan Tanner and how he died in the desert. I studied hyperthermia and it sounded like about the worst way to die in existence. But you know what? It is a pretty well known fact that Apache indians would run 50 miles or more under these conditions a hundred and fifty years ago. Then we have an athlete who can't even walk a few miles. Not everything improves necessarily.

I've always said that if boxers from previous eras were REALLY so much better as people claim, they really would have to have been inhuman in comparison with people who walk around today.

I've also said before, all the greats from the past, they were just the standouts of their era. Not every fighter was Ray Robinson, just like not every fighter today is Floyd Mayweather. I don't think a guy like Gene Fullmer would have been succesful at all in other eras.

 

[Da City of God]

I don't know, i just don't know. A lot of a person's makeup is due to the conditions they have lived under. You know, I was reading fascinatingly about Evan Tanner and how he died in the desert. I studied hyperthermia and it sounded like about the worst way to die in existence. But you know what? It is a pretty well known fact that Apache indians would run 50 miles or more under these conditions a hundred and fifty years ago. Then we have an athlete who can't even walk a few miles. Not everything improves necessarily.

Agreed. Today's athletes focus on how to get everything done fast and all at once. Too many alternatives and not just sucking it up and doing what has been proven to actually get the job done and then some. Boxing is not a game and neither should the training be, if it results in Long and excruciating training...they did it back then so why not do it now "Improved athletes v2.0?"

 

[PHATV]

I think the top fighters back then would have more success fighting against today's top competition under today's conditions than the other way around. Anything Before the 15 round change, rope change, etc.

I feel you.
Weather, length of bout, etc.
I think fighter conditioning is leaps and bounds what it was and I wonder if the top fighters from the past could even answer the bell for the 10th with a fighter of today who can literally pour it on with little rest during the rounds.
Not saying they couldn't, just saying I lean that way and I would be curious to see how that played out come the 7th, 8th, 9th rounds of a fight you would see today where a fighter is throwing 100 punches a round, let's say.
I think they might wilt. The old-timers.
But I think a lot of things---with limited benefit to anyone or anything, so...

 

[heavyarms21]

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/9697854/you-need-great-rival-greatest-all

Garbage , how is this guy a writer for ESPN

 

[Da City of God]

I feel you.
Weather, length of bout, etc.
I think fighter conditioning is leaps and bounds what it was and I wonder if the top fighters from the past could even answer the bell for the 10th with a fighter of today who can literally pour it on with little rest during the rounds.
Not saying they couldn't, just saying I lean that way and I would be curious to see how that played out come the 7th, 8th, 9th rounds of a fight you would see today where a fighter is throwing 100 punches a round, let's say.
I think they might wilt. The old-timers.
But I think a lot of things---with limited benefit to anyone or anything, so...

You basically described the old school with the "100 punches a round, pouring it on with very little rest."

 

[Spirit Breaker]

So were the old time b-ball players as good as LeBron James?
Old time hitters could swing with Pujols?
A running back from the 60s can compare with an AP?


All athletes have progressed exponentially from the "old days".
Strength, cardio, natural speed and power.

Boxers included.

I agree. There is just a natural evolution of the human race and all of the advantages of knowledge, equipment and training practices make athletes, not just fighters, better, stronger and faster.

However, my personal criteria of measuring greatness in sports is how a particular competitor changes their sport. Would there be a Adrian Peterson if there had been no Jim Brown? A LeBron with no Michael Jordan? A Mayweather without an Ali/Robinson to come before him? I think not. And in that sense Mayweather has changed things, but not in the way Ali did. How many fighters have done Ali impressions over the years in and out of the ring with varying success?

 

[Spirit Breaker]

I've always said that if boxers from previous eras were REALLY so much better as people claim, they really would have to have been inhuman in comparison with people who walk around today.

I've also said before, all the greats from the past, they were just the standouts of their era. Not every fighter was Ray Robinson, just like not every fighter today is Floyd Mayweather. I don't think a guy like Gene Fullmer would have been succesful at all in other eras.

We talked about this in another thread. If fighters from that era fought today they may not have been as successful, but if fighters from this era fought in the 40's and 50's they would probably have a tough time as well.

Mayweather would most definitely have some blotches on his record if he was made to fight every 6 weeks, not 6 months.

 

[Da City of God]

Garbage , how is this guy a writer for ESPN

He should be a writer for Sherdog:icon_lol:.

 

[Beast God]

one word; MuhammadAli