The GOATest Uber Map of how land is used in Murka

[Farmer Br0wn]

Brown, you called me wrong and offered nothing in the way of facts to refute me. I clearly described the history of the BLM.
You don’t know anyone who had their ranch taken by the BLM. I gave historical fact, you gave a concocted anecdote.
You are out of your depth on this issue. I feel like we are kindred spirits because of my midwestern farming roots, but when it comes to this, you either don’t have a damn clue what you speak of, or you are trolling.

No, you gave us a copy and paste history of the formation of the BLM. At no point did you ever disprove the notion of the BLM taking possession of homesteaded land.

When I brought up the fact that I've met people that this has happened to, you replied with the equivalent of "Nuh-Uh".

It's too bad we have to disagree on this incredibly important subject. If we don't stand with the Farmers and Ranchers out west, the BLM's encroachments, or others like it, will eventually make their way to places like Iowa, Nebraska, Indiana. I don't want that, and I suspect you don't either. I understand that you're doing what you think is right. The articles that you've read, and the research that you've done has indicated that what I've said shouldn't be possible. I'm just telling you that the facts on the ground don't match what Google news is saying.

Be safe, Travel well.

 

[ultramanhyata]

I always find it fascinating when people want to in some way impose their personal dietary choices on everyone else.

lol Yeah, let's pretend that factory beef farming has no impact on the shared environment.

This is the equivalent of your neighbor complaining about the volume of your music and you thinking, "Why is this guy concerned with the bands I like to listen to? Why does he want to impose his musical tastes on me?"

 

[LMP]

You want to put more Land into crop production?

Yes, I believe we can have more crop production and less cattle production and feed more people. The human population us ever growing and will require more food every year. Cattle production is harder on the environment than crop production. Do you believe me to be wrong on this issue?

 

[JohnnySagebrush]

No, you gave us a copy and paste history of the formation of the BLM. At no point did you ever disprove the notion of the BLM taking possession of homesteaded land.

When I brought up the fact that I've met people that this has happened to, you replied with the equivalent of "Nuh-Uh".

It's too bad we have to disagree on this incredibly important subject. If we don't stand with the Farmers and Ranchers out west, the BLM's encroachments, or others like it, will eventually make their way to places like Iowa, Nebraska, Indiana. I don't want that, and I suspect you don't either. I understand that you're doing what you think is right. The articles that you've read, and the research that you've done has indicated that what I've said shouldn't be possible. I'm just telling you that the facts on the ground don't match what Google news is saying.

Be safe, Travel well.

I copy and pasted nothing. I’ve actually lived this issue. But, I do notice your subtle jabs ie “the articles you’ve read.” I think you are just ignorant, intermixed with trolling to push your political views. But if you have more details on your anecdotes of people that you “know,” please, by all means, post them.

Brown, I’ll say it plainly in Midwest speak: you’re so full of shit, you stink. You know nothing of “facts on the ground” in this case.

 

[JohnnySagebrush]

Yes, I believe we can have more crop production and less cattle production and feed more people. The human population us ever growing and will require more food every year. Cattle production is harder on the environment than crop production. Do you believe me to be wrong on this issue?

Where should this increased crop production take place?

I wouldn’t say you are right or wrong. All agriculture has environmental impacts, just different types. Crop production has some pretty nasty effects, too, particularly on surface water quality, soil runoff, and biodiversity.

 

[LMP]

Where should this increased crop production take place?

I wouldn’t say you are right or wrong. All agriculture has environmental impacts, just different types. Crop production has some pretty nasty effects, too, particularly on surface water quality, soil runoff, and biodiversity.

There is plenty of land in the Midwest that is used for cattle, that would still be able to produce crop with minimal work. Obviously farms need to do a much better job of rotation in their crops to help maintain fertile lands.

Growing the same crop year after year in the same fields strip the lands and requires the addition of fertilizer to produce at the same rates. This would held curve the water pollution impacts the crops have. Irrigation pounds over pumping water out of ground reservoirs would is another additional step farmers could take to minimize the environmental impact.

There are a bunch of thing farmers could do better with their current farming processes.

 

[Teppodama]

This is a rediculous argument.
1)Completely impractical and unrealistic. Theres not enough room for everyone to own enough land to raise cattle themselves.
2)Most meat eaters wouldnt give a shit about the killing part but the cost of raising and feeding them would be counterproductive enough to make it not worth it.
3)I love meat but i dont think i can eat a whole cow before it goes bad. Am i allowed to sell parts of it in this hypothetical or do i have to consume it all myself?

1. never said it was practical or that there we be enough room for everyone.
2. guess it really depended on how much you craved beef and or chicken as part of your diet
3. Selling it implies someone other than the family raising it consumes it which pretty much defeats the purpose of the question. Just freeze what you aren't immediately consuming. There are plenty of people that buy a quarter, half or whole cow for the express purpose of having it their deep freeze and eating on it through the year. It's actually more cost effective that way if you are heave beef consumer. I know some that do the same with mutton, turkeys and hogs.

 

[Teppodama]

I could very easily kill an animal for consumption. Wouldn’t think about it twice.

Does that make me an asshole?

Not at all. I have done so and would willingly do so again. I have no issues with hunting an animal or raising it for slaughter.

 

[Teppodama]

No problem at all.

I would even butcher my own animals meat. I already do when I go deer/pheasant hunting.

I'll be clear. I have no issue with hunting an animal for food, raising one for food or simply purchasing ones meat. My question was just a thought exercise on how far would one go to indulge ones meat consumption. IE: If you were required to raise it, with all that entails, would you still bother?

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

I copy and pasted nothing. I’ve actually lived this issue. But, I do notice your subtle jabs ie “the articles you’ve read.” I think you are just ignorant, intermixed with trolling to push your political views. But if you have more details on your anecdotes of people that you “know,” please, by all means, post them.

Brown, I’ll say it plainly in Midwest speak: you’re so full of shit, you stink. You know nothing of “facts on the ground” in this case.

To the extent that you think that, is the extent that you're wrong.

At no point did I ever insult you, but you saw fit to insult me several times.

At no point were you ever able to counter the notion of the BLM taking possession of homesteaded lands. You're absolutely wrong on this, and you know it. That's why you're trying to deflect and make the subject about me instead of the BLM.

Since you started with the insults, I'll finish it:

Your farming ancestors would be ashamed of you, and this sophistic defense of government encroachment. No matter how much you'd like to deny it, you know this to be true.

I guess they're wrong, you truly can take the farm out of the boy.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

I'll be clear. I have no issue with hunting an animal for food, raising one for food or simply purchasing ones meat. My question was just a thought exercise on how far would one go to indulge ones meat consumption. IE: If you were required to raise it, with all that entails, would you still bother?

Of course. Meat is part of a healthy and balanced diet.

As I've pointed out to another poster, a vegan diet can actually cause malnutrition in small children.

 

[LMP]

What would you rather have there? Stripmalls and suburbs?

Didn't mean to ignore your post. No I wouldn't rather have strip malls. There is nothing wrong with leaving land undeveloped. Human need to learn how to get the resources we need without destroying all the land that we touch.

We spend more of our crops feeding livestock than we consume ourselves. As far as strip malls we should do a better job of revitalizing our inner cities instead of just expanding out and build new.

 

[JohnnySagebrush]

To the extent that you think that, is the extent that you're wrong.

At no point did I ever insult you, but you saw fit to insult me several times.

At no point were you ever able to counter the notion of the BLM taking possession of homesteaded lands. You're absolutely wrong on this, and you know it. That's why you're trying to deflect and make the subject about me instead of the BLM.

Since you started with the insults, I'll finish it:

Your farming ancestors would be ashamed of you, and this sophistic defense of government encroachment. No matter how much you'd like to deny it, you know this to be true.

I guess they're wrong, you truly can take the farm out of the boy.

So, you are a troll account, eh?

Edit:
Also, I called you ignorant on this subject. That is not an insult. Insult would be calling you stupid, which I don’t believe. You just have no idea what you are talking about on this.

Calling you full of shit? Perhaps that is an insult, but when someone is lying I believe they should be called out. Ignorance is fine, but blatantly lying is not.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

So, you are a troll account, eh?

Nope. I tell anyone, I'll stand behind anything I've ever said on this forum.

I never type anything that I would be ashamed of my grandchildren to someday read.

Also note, that you've been given three opportunities, yet you've been unable to disprove the notion of the BLM taking homesteaded lands.

You can keep trying to shift the conversation back to me, but you're just making your inability to backup your own assertions all the more clear.

You can just admit that you misspoke, and you were wrong. We're not going to think less of you.

 

[Teppodama]

We need to be working on arcology tech. Reduce a cities footprint by building up, not out.

 

[InternetHero]

Really shows how much land we waste on cattle.

It's not really wasted my friend.

Most of that land is on the High Plains, Great Basin, or the upland arid regions west of the Cascade's.

The High Plains was called the "Great American Desert" for good reason. All of that land is fairly useless in human terms.

"Why not just build a bunch of power plants there, InternetHero?" is a fair question one might ask, and the reason is that after you get many tens of miles away from a power plant you lose a lot of energy efficiency. (There are some solar arrays in the Cali desert, and in Arizona, but they are usually not that far from the grid of decent sized cities as those areas are still on the fringe of very populated regions. Not so most of the other land on the map.)

Besides storing toxic waste or having fringe religious groups build compounds, nobody wants to use the lands, most of which are under the Bureau of Land Management.

(Full disclosure: Internethero's Father was kind of a big deal in BLM matters, but my knowledge is just basic.)

 

[woodguyatl]

Again, you trying to couch your personal dietary desires in environmental terms is just you trying to incorporate a collective to impose your self-interest.

The fact that you're trying to bring my family into this shows that you're running out of arguments to make.

I've pointed this out to you twice, and I find it fascinating that you won't acknowledge this one axiomatic truth:

It's not your place to say what others should, or shouldn't eat.

The reason that you're so resistant to this basic Axiom, is because deep down, you think it should be your place to tell others what they should or shouldn't eat.

This is why I keep telling you that you're guilty of Full Belly hubris. Because your belly is full, you think you can tell others when and how they should restrict their own diets.

So let industrial whale hunters have back at it or is it sometimes OK to dictate what people consume and the argument is over where to draw the line?

That said, I'm not sure why people have a problem with eating retired or captured wild horses.