News The GOAT Anderson Silva still to this day says BJ Penn is the best ever. Picks his 4 best fighters.

[Shaddows]

He stuffed one takedown.

We have not seen anything to indicate he has wrestling that is effective for longer than the beginning of a fight, or actually viable grappling when he is taken down.

Ngannu is the best example of "modern training" being another fairy tale. Dude was shoveling coal in Africa, and now trains mostly at the UFC PI. Real unheralded cross-training right there, SMH.

So you claim he is terrible, then when he stuffed a takedown from a NCAA wrestler and knocks a Golden Gloves Boxing champion, you claim "we have not seen anything"...

I mean, which one is it? Is he terrible or we don't know? And if we don't know, why are you claiming he is not good (since you couldn't see his evolution)?

You obviously see where I am going, don't you?

But beyond all that, it is not because training has not evolved, but because some fighters come from certain backgrounds, and it takes a little while to catch up on other facets of MMA.

In the early day,s they would be even in worse shape, since there was no "MMA" and they would have to learn wrestling, and BJJ and everything separately, which was my point.

 

[Bruce Lee666]

I quite disagree with you.
Yes, on their first fight, Miocic abused Francic with Wrestling... how did that work out in their second fight?
And you meant to tell me this has nothing to do with improvements on Ngannou's side?

Man Miocic is a old man and he's not a great wrestler, Francis has very weak Grappling, his jiu jitsu doesn't exist and a guy like Cormier Prime would beat him.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

On pure potential and raw talent - I'd say I agree.

But his work ethic and ability to overcome adversity (tied to his work ethic) was subpar.

We saw what he could be 2 times - both times he left Hilo to train in California, brought in killers to train with, did a FULL camp with Marv and Gary in charge of his S & C and shutdown and brutalized Florian and Sanchez like no one before.

The fight after Sanchez? Well he went back to Hilo, started to complain that the S & C he was doing in the mornings was draining him and wanted to cut back on it. Marv and Gary took this as him not wanting to trust them or put in the work and left half way through the camp. And the result? He gassed out and ended up losing a close Dec to Frankie the first time around and a clear cut decision the 2nd time (when Marv and Gary had nothing to do with his S & C.)

GSP has basically said the same thing - that Penn had the best he's ever fought in terms of skills (and his hardest fight)

 

[Wariowokecancel]

1. Penn
2. Khabib
3. Royce Gracie
4. Big Nog

“Well, there’s lots of different fighters I respect, but if we’re talking about the best, I would say BJ Penn,” said Silva when talking through his list of best four MMA fighters ever. “What the guy did, he’s amazing, what he did for the sport.”

“Khabib, Khabib is a beast, he’s so amazing,” added Silva. “He changed, how you say, his wrestling, his pressure, how he fight, he changed the game.”

Silva chose two fellow Brazilians to round out his list; UFC 1, 2 & 4 winner Royce Gracie and former PRIDE heavyweight champion Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira.

“I would also say Royce Gracie - he started everything. Without him there would be nothing. None of this, no UFC, nothing. My best friend ‘Minotauro’ as well. He’s my master. He gave me my black belt in jiu-jitsu.”

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2021/7/...mas-mount-rushmore-logan-paul-mma-boxing-news

Dude can’t get over GSP. That shit hangs over him. Sad.

 

[Shaddows]

Man Miocic is a old man and he's not a great wrestler, Francis has very weak Grappling, his jiu jitsu doesn't exist and a guy like Cormier Prime would beat him.

LOL
sorry, but your line of excuses need some work, kid.
I don't even think that you believe in the shit you wrote.

1) Miocic is NCAA Division I wrestler.
2) Francis grappling, the ONLY thing you saw was him stopping perfectly a takedown, so how the fuck do you "know" how "inexistent" is his bjj?
The answer is obvious, you don't.

So please spare me of your asinine observations, because they have been proven just a hater's opinion, and as such, they should be promptly ignored.

 

[Shaddows]

Dude can’t get over GSP. That shit hangs over him. Sad.

LOL
GSP nutsuckers are always mad. Whether he mentions GSP or not.
That's the only sad part here, kid.
You know Silva owns you and you can't get over it.

 

[Wariowokecancel]

LOL
GSP nutsuckers are always mad. Whether he mentions GSP or not.
That's the only sad part here, kid.
You know Silva owns you and you can't get over it.

Blaszczykowski is my dude because I slapped hands a couple of time with him at my local Rocky style fight club. Who you got.

 

[Tevfik1907]

GSP has basically said the same thing - that Penn had the best he's ever fought in terms of skills (and his hardest fight)

GSP also said Khabib is the only guy that motivates him to return fighting, he says Khabib's skills are on a different level than others etc.



So both GSP and Silva basically mentioned Prime BJ and Khabib.

 

[Shaddows]

Blaszczykowski is my dude because I slapped hands a couple of time with him at my local Rocky style fight club. Who you got.

You mean Jakub?
I am impressed...

tell him I say Hi to Agata...

 

[Cranberry2.0]

GSP also said Khabib is the only guy that motivates him to return fighting, he says Khabib's skills are on a different level than others etc.



So both GSP and Silva basically mentioned Prime BJ and Khabib.

Just for friendly discussion, but I find that lower weight class fighters always get a silly amount of respect for their skill level compared to skilled heavy fighters. Fedor is relevant in this discussion as it pertains to all time greats.

For 10 years Fedor went 31-0 against fighters a few inches shorter than him to well over a foot taller. 100s of pounds in weight given up. An yet he knew how to deal with them all with a combination of incredible skill and athleticism. Every opponent Fedor faced was more dangerous than any opponent Khabib or Penn faced in so many different ways.

 

[Cranberry2.0]

Gotta say, "wouldn't be ranked at 185" was maybe too harsh.

Other than that i can't agree with you.
The smaller guys aren't more skilled because they're faster, but because their technique - regardless of speed - is aeons better than that of the heavier guys in MMA.
Some people - including you, it seems - think you can't be as technical if you're big, but that's not true.
In fact, in other sports there are multiple examples of very big guys being every bit as technical as their small counterparts, it's just that in MMA you don't even need to be that close in skill to make it at heavyweight and light heavyweight as compared to the divisions between 135-170.

It's not just the talent pool either, because 125 also trumps 205 and above in terms of skill/technique.
It's on the one hand due the fact that very talented big guys are (understandably) drawn to sports paying much better, but also due to the fact that big guys aren't nearly as incentivized to care about their technique as small guys, as you'll always get by a ton on physicality when training in the gym if you're big.

Stipe Miocic and Ciryl Gane with their footwork are unicorns in heavyweight MMA for that reason, though even heavyweight starts to (very slowly) evolve.

One reason has to be the nature of heavyweight fighting. Greg Hardy could ko Miocic in their first exchange after partially stuffing a takedown and I wouldn't be stunned. I think the brutal and unpredictable reality of huge athletic guys fighting is

1. Skill can quickly and abruptly be neutralized by physics, all heavyweights are dangerous. This changes the way fights are fought and may cause them to look less skilled.
2. Not many huge guys (there are way less of them than 155 pound men obviously) want to go into such a crapshoot of a job as a result, plus there will be less big guys around to train with.
3. Huge guys with fine motor skills are exceptionally rare. Fedor was a little under 6 foot, and around 237 pounds. No means a giant but a large and powerful man with phenomenal coordination and explosiveness. There are lots of bigger guys in the NFL for example who are crazy explosive, yet the fine tuned coordination that Fedor possessed is exceptionally rare. That's why he could beat smaller fighters and huge giants like Hong Man Choi, Sammy Schilt, Zuluzinho etc. The scary thing is that a huge explosive guy with poor coordination could still overwhelm him. Stuff like that wouldn't occur at strict weight classes 155, 170 etc. Heavyweight fighting is terrifying

 

[Iron Nick]

One reason has to be the nature of heavyweight fighting. Greg Hardy could ko Miocic in their first exchange after partially stuffing a takedown and I wouldn't be stunned. I think the brutal and unpredictable reality of huge athletic guys fighting is

1. Skill can quickly and abruptly be neutralized by physics, all heavyweights are dangerous. This changes the way fights are fought and may cause them to look less skilled.
2. Not many huge guys (there are way less of them than 155 pound men obviously) want to go into such a crapshoot of a job as a result, plus there will be less big guys around to train with.
3. Huge guys with fine motor skills are exceptionally rare. Fedor was a little under 6 foot, and around 237 pounds. No means a giant but a large and powerful man with phenomenal coordination and explosiveness. There are lots of bigger guys in the NFL for example who are crazy explosive, yet the fine tuned coordination that Fedor possessed is exceptionally rare. That's why he could beat smaller fighters and huge giants like Hong Man Choi, Sammy Schilt, Zuluzinho etc. The scary thing is that a huge explosive guy with poor coordination could still overwhelm him. Stuff like that wouldn't occur at strict weight classes 155, 170 etc. Heavyweight fighting is terrifying

Interesting comment.

I can't right now, but maybe i'll give you a more detailed response later in the coming days.

 

[Fight Professor]

There is no problem with putting BJ and Royce on the list if you look at their primes. GSP and Jones are above Khabib for sure. Nog is a legend but he should not be on that list.

 

[IIIIIIII]

resume-wise, big nog deserves to be somewhere in the top four.

 

[olimpicus]

veiled Fedor thread

 

[420sicness]

I'm the biggest BJ fan and can put him top 10 comfortably but not top 5 sorry b

 

[SithJiuJitsu]

If you don't have BJ Penn at least in your Top 5 GOAT list you don't know much of anything and probably weren't around during his prime

BJ Penn in his prime today, probably would have putgrappled Khabib at least in the first round.
I’d say that’s pretty evident based on his fights at welterweight and other accomplishments.

 

[Richard Fannin]

GSP has basically said the same thing - that Penn had the best he's ever fought in terms of skills (and his hardest fight)

It's important to note that just after, GSP said "If you're talking, toughest fight, in term of damage, in which I got the most hurt, it's my fight with Carlos Condit"
Just before the second BJ Penn fight (so, after the first fight that GSP now says was one of his hardest), GSP said in a couple interviews that Jon Fitch was the toughest fighter he'd ever faced.
"He was like the terminator, at the end of every round he'd look at me like I'll be back©"

GSP is like Fedor & Anderson, they always give different lists of "best opponents you've ever faced", and all these guys never talk about themselves being the GOAT, which is commendable when you have guys like Jon Jones or Khabib claiming this spot for themselves.