The Ghost of Strikeforce at its peak? -- .600 win% vs UFC, 60% UFC Belts, +Ronda/WMMA

[ocfightfan]

Well you know Fedor was a RINGS fighter.

 

[DarthChen731]

I agree on both accounts!
I always thought Werdum was better than he believed himself!
AFter Fedor (whom most called a fluke), his showing against AO... I was so mad! IMHO he was beating AO on the feet, but kept flopping back all the time!

I think since then he changed his approach.
Quite the opposite! His ground game allows him to be wreckless standing up. I mean, who will take him down anyway??

As for Robbie, he was someone I liked and always rooted for.
It was a dark time when he was struggling at SF. But this time are all but forgoten IMO!

The last one is Jacare! I am frustrated that Luke leapfrogged him. But he will have his chance soon enough!

Jacare should have gotten a title shot after beating Okami. Fucking maddening how they keep stringing him along and he keeps ending up with last minute opponent changes to lesser dudes.

 

[Jack V Savage]

UFC basically ran off pride stars from 06 until not that long ago, strikeforce guys all up in that top 10, WEC guys taking over lightweight.

UFC way of building guys up sucks. I like that we see competitive fights, but let them whoop a journeyman now and again, especially if they are coming off a loss. its not like UFC has a 550 deep roster or anything.

Very good point. Look at how they totally ruined Struve, who could have been one of the best HWs ever.

 

[FrontNakedChoke]

Strikeforce was awesome.

 

[SuperHoss]

That is BS and you know it.
Luke is about to fight Weidman.
DC is your champ
Werdum is your champ (and he was climbing the ranks in SF already).
Ronda was already their Champ.
Lawler was struggling st SF. And this is not demerit at all!
Shields is/was a top talent, even in the UFC. Same for Jacare (next in line for the belt after Luke).
Even Tim Kennedy grew in SF and had success in the UFC.

Claiming "fighters change" is asinine.
the fact their top are fighting for the belt or holding the belt shows they are indeed as talented as the UFC counterparts.

The fact they signed with zuffa holds no meaning why they are succeeding right now. They were already talented to begin with.

All of the fighters you mention were considered top level talents. I am not even talking about the Women's division there wasn't one in the UFC.

Fighters absolutely evolve. They also go through hills and valleys in their careers. Sometimes its mental, losing a fight and struggling to regain their confidence, sometimes physical, recovering from a KO, rehabbing from an injury, et. al. Age and the long term duress of fighting on their bodies take their toll.

When PRIDE folded it was only a few years later that many of their stalwarts looked terrible. That wasn't because they were suddenly exposed. Things can change a ton in just a few years in MMA and usually do. Look at the champions from today and compare them to the champions of just two years ago. How many have endured? Then compare that to four years ago and tell me things don't change quickly.

 

[Squarechoke]

The SF fighters have done very well, but it's suspect to talk about someone like Werdum as an SF fighter as he was in the UFC before that.

Same with Lawler but to an even greater extent as we know for a fact that he changed things in his career late. He didn't do well in SF but changed things up when SF was merged with the UFC, which also led him to switch weight class, and became great again. The last guy to beat him in SF has a losing record in the UFC since then.

Guys like Rockhold, Jacar

 

[Hotei]

I mean, it shows how idiotic all those "Strikefarce" claims were. It also shows how silly the whole "UFC fighters are the best" idea is.

It's also why I believe other organizations are important. SF fostered these fighters. Without SF, it's debatable if someone like Rousey would have ever become famous.

Nailed it.

 

[capnlarge]

Strikeforce was legit. I enjoyed pretty much every one of their cards. Even if it was difficult to sit through Mauro Renallo's commentary.

 

[Rational Poster]

DC has a paper belt too.

 

[riitzni]

Anyone who watched and liked SF can also admit it was a second tier org. It was, let's not pretend. That doesn't diminish any of its former fighters at all.

To me the proof is in the gold. Not a single SF champion has ever come over and taken the current UFC champion's throne. Ronda retained hers like Jose and DC could have been the first but he has the rotten luck of being in the same division as one of the greats.

 

[phatron]

I mean, it shows how idiotic all those "Strikefarce" claims were. It also shows how silly the whole "UFC fighters are the best" idea is.

It's also why I believe other organizations are important. SF fostered these fighters. Without SF, it's debatable if someone like Rousey would have ever become famous.

You really don't get that fighters improve over time?

Its been 4 years since then. Jacare, Lawler, Rousey, Rockhold, etc are all better today than they were 4 years ago.

 

[Shaddows]

All of the fighters you mention were considered top level talents. I am not even talking about the Women's division there wasn't one in the UFC.

Fighters absolutely evolve. They also go through hills and valleys in their careers. Sometimes its mental, losing a fight and struggling to regain their confidence, sometimes physical, recovering from a KO, rehabbing from an injury, et. al. Age and the long term duress of fighting on their bodies take their toll.

When PRIDE folded it was only a few years later that many of their stalwarts looked terrible. That wasn't because they were suddenly exposed. Things can change a ton in just a few years in MMA and usually do. Look at the champions from today and compare them to the champions of just two years ago. How many have endured? Then compare that to four years ago and tell me things don't change quickly.

What are you trying to say? that they were all on downhill while at SF, but suddenly when they joined the UFC they became elite once again?
Sorry, but your argument holds no water.

When Pride folded, a lot of the top fighters were already in decline (i.e. Wandi, Nog's, Rua).
The change of rules and move from ring to octagon played a huge part.

But even beyond this consideration , they still did better than their UFC counterparts for the most part.
Where were AA or Timmy? Chuck? Hughes? BJ Penn? Most of them declined faster than Fedor, Nog & Cia.

So no. While I agree some fighters goes up or down, saying we can't claim these guys were talented while at Pride or SF is asinine at best!

 

[stav]

Lawler fought 8 times in the UFC b4 going to Strike force..its not like he was a random talent that Strike force found and developed, He was already a UFC veteran.In fact Lawler's Strike force career was not spectacular going 3-5. Good for him for turning his career around, its amazing but you can't label this guy as a strike force fighter after the career he has had.

Werdum was a Pride veteran and also had 4 fights in the UFC going 2-2 b4 moving to Strike force. Lets not act again Like Strike Force found him and developed him either. Werdum is an original Pride fighter. Developed and grown there, not in Strike force.

Cormier is a charity champion. Loses to Jones then gets an immediate shot due to crazy circumstances and Jones own stupidity, but lets not get crazy here, Jones is the number 1 LHW in the world.
Disclaimer...he is a legit top fighter and prob the true no 2 in the division but he is not the no 1 LHW in the world.

Ronda can be considered a true Strike forces fighter being developed and by them but the UFC did not have a Women's division.

 

[Ashenthorn]

I like the thread and this seems to be what happens when every major org folds and the UFC gets their fighters. Pride and WEC fighters had/have some great success. Not all of them obviously but champs have come from all the big orgs that this happens to. Not that I would wish it on a company but I'd like to see what WSOF guys can do in the UFC as it seems like a company that may not be doing great. Moraes (Sp?), Gaeje (Sp?), Palhares, Shields, Ivanov, Rama, etc seem like they can make an impact.

Moraes and Gathje would be great to see in the UFC. The other guys? Not so much.

Lance Palmer would be good too.

 

[DaGenius]

You have to give strike force props and yes if you can fight you can fight anywhere

 

[TeamRenzo26]

Are we at the high watermark of what the collective former Strikeforce fighters achievement?

Strikeforce fighters have more than held their own against "the UFC." In fact of the Major Event/Main Card fighters (excld Challengers or Prelimers) Strikeforce currently own a 90-61-1 Win-Record (since the Jake Shields-Dan Henderson kickoff point).


Strikeforce fighters vs UFC: 90-61-1
(Only full-fledged SF fighters; fought on the Main Card of Major Events; e.g. Jake Shields, Fabricio Werdum, Shane del Rosario, Nah-shon Burrell)

Strikeforce Minor Leaguers: 28-37-1

SF Prelimers: 20-26-0
(e.g. Bobby Green, Yoel Romero, Quinn Mulhern, Josh Cholish)
​

SF Challengers: 8-11-1
(e.g. Bobby Voelker, Shawn Jordan, Milton Vieria)
​

Zuffaforce (post-2012 debuts): 3-11
(e.g. Bristol Marunde, Nandor Guelmino, Estevan Payan, Adriano Martins)

Strikeforce leftovers/others: 18-19-0
(e.g. Arlovski, Kawajiri, Chris Cope, Dustin Ortiz, Ron Stalling -- not directly joining the UFC after SF)

note: Since Shields>Hendo as the line of demarcation between SF/UFC




Of the weight classes that both the UFC and Strikeforce had -- LW to HW -- "Strikeforce guys" own 60% of the Titles, 3 of 5 of the 'Belts.'

And then there's Ronda and WMMA in general...

Is this "The Ghost of Strikeforce" at it's height, right now?
Or has it yet to peak?!

Werdum and Lawler were in the UFC before they ever fought for strikeforce so no

 

[SuperHoss]

What are you trying to say? that they were all on downhill while at SF, but suddenly when they joined the UFC they became elite once again?
Sorry, but your argument holds no water.

Each case is different, but Lawler sure was.

When Pride folded, a lot of the top fighters were already in decline (i.e. Wandi, Nog's, Rua).
The change of rules and move from ring to octagon played a huge part.

But even beyond this consideration , they still did better than their UFC counterparts for the most part.
Where were AA or Timmy? Chuck? Hughes? BJ Penn? Most of them declined faster than Fedor, Nog & Cia.

So no. While I agree some fighters goes up or down, saying we can't claim these guys were talented while at Pride or SF is asinine at best!

Yep, this is pretty much exactly what I was trying to say.

You rambled around and found your way to the truth and I agree.

 

[Mikedh]

You really don't get that fighters improve over time?

Its been 4 years since then. Jacare, Lawler, Rousey, Rockhold, etc are all better today than they were 4 years ago.

And Jacare was a guy who made his name in Japan, Lawler was already a big MMA figure, Rousey was 0-0 in MMA when Zuffa bought Strikeforce and Rockhold's biggest victory was Paul Bradley.

 

[Shaddows]

Each case is different, but Lawler sure was.



Yep, this is pretty much exactly what I was trying to say.

You rambled around and found your way to the truth and I agree.

well then it seems we both misunderstood each other, but we were saying the same thing.
Cheers!

 

[Shaddows]

And Jacare was a guy who made his name in Japan, Lawler was already a big MMA figure, Rousey was 0-0 in MMA when Zuffa bought Strikeforce and Rockhold's biggest victory was Paul Bradley.

whut?
RR was already the 135 champ at SF, prior to Zuffa's purchase.