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The full/half nelson

earthman32

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I was introducing a friend of mine to mma the other day and he asked me why they don't use more half nelson and full nelson holds. I didn't have an answer for him so I thought I'd post it here, see if anyone else knew.

Also, what is the counter to a nelson?
 
funny this should come up. rolles taugh a killer heelhook setup from the turtle position using a half nelson last week. check my training log in S&P if you want a description, its one of the more recent entries.
 
Actually I've seen lots of guys use the half nelson regularly to stop people from turning over from under the mount. It helps set up RNC's and armbars. The full nelson isn't used in MMA probably because it's very easy to escape, and for the most part can only be applied effectively by either very strong or big guys on weaker guys or guys with a weak neck.
 
People don't use the full nelson much because it's a neck crank, as for the half nelson I see it used (and use it) all the time.

The counter to a full nelson is simply to place your hand just above your forehead.
 
A half nelson, or full nelson is done in wrestling to turn someone over to their back. If someone is on their stomach in MMA, work for a rear naked choke, why would you want them on their back, where they can get back into their guard? At the most it's a neck crank, and it is not very hard to defend against a half or full nelson. Just peel the hand and look away.
 
TheHighlander said:
How would you turn somebody over with a full nelson?

The same way you turn someone over with a half nelson. Circle towards the head, push their face into the mat and drive them over. Or if you're good and strong you can just pull their head under and bump their hips up and over, essentiall flipping them over their own head.
 
Hammer_Fist said:
A half nelson, or full nelson is done in wrestling to turn someone over to their back. If someone is on their stomach in MMA, work for a rear naked choke, why would you want them on their back, where they can get back into their guard? At the most it's a neck crank, and it is not very hard to defend against a half or full nelson. Just peel the hand and look away.

in jiu jitsu its mainly used, as far as ive seen, to keep someone on their back in sidemount when they start turning into you and onto their knees to escape. you can hold them there with a standard half nelson, or use the "wrong" hand to do the half nelson (like a whizzer but grip the back of their neck with the same hand) and move around to the other side, pivoting on the half nelson. if you can't reach, put the palm of your free hand on their head like you were going to push it into the ground, give him teh whizzer, and make a figure 4 grip, then move around the other side.
 
Hammer_Fist said:
The same way you turn someone over with a half nelson. Circle towards the head, push their face into the mat and drive them over. Or if you're good and strong you can just pull their head under and bump their hips up and over, essentiall flipping them over their own head.

Just to make sure we're talking about the same thing: Full Nelson is when you have your arms under both of their armpits and hands clasping at the back of their neck. Where do you go when you are doing these turn-overs? Are you releasing the full nelson partway over?

I can never remember the difference between the half and quarter nelson though.
 
I use a half nelson to finish omoplatas. I've even used a half nelson from the back when my partner has been in turtle position to transition to a face down armbar. I may try get pictures of it to put on lockflow.com this weekend, so you'll be able to see what I mean.
 
I can never remember the difference between the half and quarter nelson though.

With a half nelson you're at their side with the arm nearest their shoulder hook under their armpit and around the back of their head.
A quater nelson has you in front of them with an over hook and pushing down on the back of their head (this can be done with the free hand as well to add more control)
 
TheHighlander said:
Just to make sure we're talking about the same thing: Full Nelson is when you have your arms under both of their armpits and hands clasping at the back of their neck. Where do you go when you are doing these turn-overs? Are you releasing the full nelson partway over?

I can never remember the difference between the half and quarter nelson though.

a quarter nelson is done after a sprawl (in front of them).
 
TequillaSlammer said:
People don't use the full nelson much because it's a neck crank, as for the half nelson I see it used (and use it) all the time.

The counter to a full nelson is simply to place your hand just above your forehead.


Actually why do u need to put it on ya forehead. Still, childhood xperience tells me that in a full nelson it is almost strength vs strength.. his vs yours. true?
 
Half nelson is pretty good actually, if you're doing gi work. Let's say you have a half nelson on his left side, if you can grab his left side colar, bring it to the right and choke him with it. If you can transfer the collar before the nelson, even better. If after you get the choke, you can transfer the collar back you your left hand behind his neck, even better still.

I don't do much gi work tho, but I've seen this done as an army manuver of sorts, and it seems like it could apply well.
 
thecas said:
Actually why do u need to put it on ya forehead. Still, childhood xperience tells me that in a full nelson it is almost strength vs strength.. his vs yours. true?

The full nelson is a short-lever attack on the neck by pushing on the neck. You can use your hand on the forehead to get a long-lever force on the neck to counter his short-level force. In a full nelson you typically have to exert a fair bit of force against a resisting opponent...and it's darn hard to sneak into it against anybody experienced.
 
The counter to a Half Nelson is to keep your head up and try to peel off the arm. Make sure you always look up and away.
 
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