The Flash Knockdown Rule

Discussion in 'Muay Thai and Kickboxing' started by Snubnoze707, Oct 13, 2013.

  1. Snubnoze707

    Snubnoze707 High Level

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    Getting hit while throwing a kick or being off balance, and popping right back up off of the canvas.

    There has always been controversy surrounding these instances in Kickboxing on whether this should be considered a true knockdown are something as little as a slip.

    Glory tried to make it more of a black and white issue by deeming it a knockdown, resulting in a loss of a point. With their being only 3 rounds, losing 1 point is huge and typically costs a fighter the fight, so is this the right move by Glory?

    Should this always be considered a knockdown? Should it be treated like the Thai stadiums and always be ignored by the ref? Should it be left to the refs discretion to determine if the hit was hard enough to be deemed a knockdown? Take away a half point instead?

    What do you guys think?
     
  2. Muay o Muay

    Muay o Muay Purple Belt

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    Well it has made a contraversial appearance in the last two tournys ....also does the rule apply to a knockdown from a teep for example!!??
    I would say refs discretion but then again with some glory refs!?....
     
  3. DastardlyMass

    DastardlyMass Brown Belt

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    ignore them if they get right up like in thailand it what they should do
     
  4. DW HKL

    DW HKL Blue Belt

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    I'm kind of okay with the rule, honestly.

    If I were to change anything it'd probably be that fights should be at least five rounds, unless it's an 8-man tournament.

    People need to stop complaining and crying about bad reffing unless it is actually, you know, bad reffing. There have been plenty of examples of really bad reffing in GLORY and those refs are gone. GLORY's rules are kind of weird and the refs are just following those weird rules, even if the commentators aren't aware of them and the rules are a bit different than what we are used to.
     
  5. guinepighamster

    guinepighamster Orange Belt

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    Fights seem too short. Maybe it is so fighters will go all out but that also means some will stall or slow the tempo down and win by points.

    So yeah, if you are the one who knocks your opponent down then there is little reason not to just stall and win by points. Seems like a rule that will hurt more than it will help.
     
  6. DhakaMMA

    DhakaMMA Purple Belt

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    A knockdown is merely a precursor to a knockout. Outside that material fact, a knockdown has no significance on its own. I mean, logically speaking, why SHOULD a fight be stopped if someone has fallen on the ground? What is the significance of falling on the ground in contrast to a slip or sweep which is not regarded to stop a fight?

    A flash-knockdown is when a fighter immediately gets up, that means they are not near being Knocked Out. Counting that as a KD hurts a fighter in the scorecards, as well as ends fights too short. This hurts the integrity of the organization. We will see title fights where a flash-KD will have made the difference in the scorecards giving the title to their opponent.

    The flash-KD combined with the 2-KD rule (or even 3-KD), also means that the moment someone is dropped (and in some cases it maybe a false KD, see Saki;Glory11), his style goes from offensive to defensive. That changes the total direction of the fight. So now you have a fighter whose already lost a point cuz of the KD, he may potentially lose more points (to his opponent) due to his defensive stance (cuz he's afraid if he gets one more KD in the Rd, it'll be ruled a TKO).
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2013
  7. BambooWater

    BambooWater Orange Belt

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    Falling down in any way shows you are not balanced or in control. If an opponent times this lack of balance with a strike or trip, it's should be considered a knockdown.
     
  8. Nicslagan

    Nicslagan Purple Belt

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    Keep everything the same. Bad calls will happen no matter what the rules are.
     
  9. DastardlyMass

    DastardlyMass Brown Belt

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    I see the point of the rule i just think it has not been applied in the spirit in which i think it was added for and the fucking refs do not even let 1 second of clinching when it is set at 3. no matter how active the fighter they break it immediately or after one quick knee. Also the tidday punch was pretty bad, the ref was out of possession and called the knockdown after not seeing the strike. Also why stop fights that are non tournament fights when guys are still on there feet? I understand after a 10 round beating in boxing but let the guys at least hit the floor they are professionals and only fighting 3 rounds for gods sake
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2013
  10. DastardlyMass

    DastardlyMass Brown Belt

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    because of the rules. if you knocked a guy down in the real world you would kick and beat him while he is dazed on the ground. the knock down it is where a fighter is at his most vulnerable and is out side of a knockout the most significant moment of a fight where there is no ground fighting allowed. with your equilibrium tied to the head trauma not being able to keep your balance is a sure sign of significant damage to the brain and the reason for stopping fights when one man falls and can not regain his balance
     
  11. DastardlyMass

    DastardlyMass Brown Belt

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    im down if you want to score sweeps and throws like in muay thai but this is a stand up fight and not a wrestling or judo match. Scoring them as a knockdown is insane this is a striking sport based around damage not how great your ability to say on your feet. Now if you get thrown like saenchai did to khem i'm all down for the knockdown but not for trips and basic sweeps
     
  12. DhakaMMA

    DhakaMMA Purple Belt

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    So this is the first and only post you've ever made in the Kickboxing section, and this is what you have to say?... For your information, the flash-knockdown is not the norm; it is actually an anomaly, something employed by Glory, which historically most other orgs do not use. Thats why the outrage.

    Did you see Saki get up last fight (Rd 3), did you see Saki having total balance? And what about Levin the card before (Rd 4)?
     
  13. Bang Rachan

    Bang Rachan Brown Belt

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    I don't like the rule in three rounds fights because it hugely alters the fight, The Thai way is the way glory should follow
     
  14. DastardlyMass

    DastardlyMass Brown Belt

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    I dont care about total balance just as long as you could halfway walk a straight line like a dui test but if you cant throw a strike and stay on your feet it needs to be called
     
  15. DhakaMMA

    DhakaMMA Purple Belt

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    Given that Saki went 2 whole rounds after that, I'm guessing he was fine (he managed to "walk a straight line" to the ref to give him a piece of his mind!). I'm not lobbying for Saki or Levin here, I'm lobbying against the flash-knockdown and the horrible unintended consequences of it that we are yet to see in the coming future.
     
  16. Shadaloo Bison

    Shadaloo Bison Orange Belt

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    X2

    The flash-KD rule will continue to ruin/influence some great fights if it remains to be allowed. Fighters might just kick less, because they're afraid to be pushed off balance and scored a KD.

    As said before the 2 KD in 1 round / 3 KD in a fight resulting in TKO is really a silly tournament rule. Especially since glory only has mini-tournaments left. The fighters fight maximum 8 rounds (3 rounds+extra round per fight) with at least 2 fights between their second fight. This isn't the grand slam tournament.
     
  17. GustavHolst**

    GustavHolst** Purple Belt

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    People still argue that Bonjasky should have gotten the 8 count against Overeem. People are going to continue to argue that Saki should not have gotten the count against Rico. You can't please everyone.
     
  18. DastardlyMass

    DastardlyMass Brown Belt

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    Saki got tidday punched while he was slipping from throwing a hellacious combo. The levin and sponge vs dutt fights are I think why the rule was invented but now we are going to have way more instances like the saki -rico fight going down. There needs to be the difference between falling over while being struck and getting knocked down which to me means the fighter is not able to control there balance due to damage
     
  19. DW HKL

    DW HKL Blue Belt

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    This.
     
  20. DastardlyMass

    DastardlyMass Brown Belt

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    i guess i just do not understand because there is no way saki should have been counted last night. if that was a real knockdown and if this is how the rules will be inferred going forward as great as last night was i will just watch muaythai and forget kickboxing was ever invented. The 10 point must system ruined mma and it is doing the same to kickboxing along with this stupid rule.
     

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