The Fireman's Carry

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by IrishBeatDown****, Apr 11, 2008.

  1. IrishBeatDown**** Banned Banned

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    i wrestled for years and i could never get this move down... i knew how to do it, it is in fact a very simple take down... but i could never get my body to go through the motion... after the duck under i would high crotch and try to throw the opponent which is fine... but then i was in a vulnerable state facing away from my opponent... FINALLY i realized its more of a forward dump than an over shoulder throw and i have since been able to properly execute it and roll into a more favorable side control position... however i have found, as many of you had no doubt already known, that even trying to set up for a firemans carry is just asking for a guillotine or front choke... or worse a crucifix if you are really terrible... that being said... does the firemans carry have a place in MMA? can it be effectively utilized in a fight and whats the best way to prevent being caught ina choke when going for the fireman's carry?
     
  2. Mikey Triangles Bending Joints the Wrong Way Since 1985

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    the firemans carry and dump are extremely effective both with and without the gi in grappling. i have seen it hit in MMA, but. for the most part i think there's a lot more risks involved in MMA with this particular takedown
     
  3. dallas405 Green Belt

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    my absolute favorite thing is having someone go for the firemans and slaping down the crucifix, its just right there.
     
  4. armtriangle Brown Belt

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    its just liek any takedown. if youre good at it and good at setting it up, it works. I personally use the outside carry all the time, i find it to be very low risk and high percentage. if my opponent triws to switch the unerhook to a frontheadlock, i drag out.

    i shoot the "old" style firemans, where it is an actual over the shoulders move (because thats how i learned and drilled it). i do the slide through (rather than to my knees), and that helps alot with the motion for me. the way alot of coaches teach it now it really is a dump over the head rather than a true firemans. i think the outside carry is a far superior technique and you see it used all the time at high levels, where its pretty rare to see a straight up firemans. either way, all takedowns are good moves and can be used effectively, IF you set them up right.
     
  5. Lovesong Green Belt

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    Is an outside fireman's also called a "near arm far leg" (or maybe "far arm near leg")? For example you pull down on right arm and reach for his left leg?

    If it's what I'm thinking of, I was never much good at it (I was never much good at wrestling actually...) any advice? I used to just turn it into a single leg after I failed at it...
     
  6. TacWar Green Belt

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    Yes outside fireman's is near arm far leg... I've also heard it called an overhook sweep single and a sweep firemans. The outside fireman's can work real well when you have your head on the same side as your overhook and your opponent tries to roll his head under for better head position.

    I'm sure you didn't mean it this way, but you don't reach for the leg... you sweep around as you pull down on the arm. I don't want anyone wanting to try this to get in the habit of just reaching, as you won't find the move effective. Pull down on the arm and take a penetration step across the body drop to the far knee as you wrap your opponents knee joint. I can't find a good tutorial in any of my normal places for the outside fireman's, so if someone else has one post it.
     
  7. armtriangle Brown Belt

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    thats the one. its a firmans with a single leg instead of a high crotch

    there is also a variation ( i call a dump) where you switch the single leg up to his hip or ribs, almost an underhook. i dont liek it as much, but some guys are really good at it.

    advice: keep the arm tight. try to put your shoulder on the mat. drive in on the shot.
     
  8. armtriangle Brown Belt

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    good point. its all about the arm. you really dont even need the leg.
     
  9. Lovesong Green Belt

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    Thanks guys. I'll work on this some. Worst case it's a good setup to finish with a single.
     
  10. Jimmy Cerra Amateur Fighter

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    Try working on exaggerating the "pull back" motion on his arm. That can help you get the required offbalancing better.
     
  11. 2om30 Red Belt

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    that move saved many lives too...
     
  12. Zankou Bringing peace and love Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Damn, post some vids so we can tell what you are all talking about. :D
     
  13. Lovesong Green Belt

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  14. ccl2087 Guest

    i like the fireman's carry, we learned something similar to it once in judo, pretty effective move
     
  15. armtriangle Brown Belt

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    if you try to do it like teh guy in that photo sequence , it will always fail. you have to keep that arm really tight. thats key.
     
  16. TacWar Green Belt

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    agreed, but at least you get a look at the technique..just remember to pull that arm in tight to offbalance just like frodo said otherwise you will be stuck on a really crappy, easy to sprawl against low-single attempt. Also make sure even if you don't grab the leg you block it off with your arm so your opponent can't try to snake around your back.
     
  17. Lovesong Green Belt

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    It looks like he does have it tight, especially in photo "A" on page 81. How could he get tighter? That's how I've always tried to do it before I try to drive over my shoulder.

    EDIT: Unless you mean a deeper shot that ends more perpendicular?
     
  18. Zankou Bringing peace and love Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    That book is awesome, thanks for posting it!
     
  19. TacWar Green Belt

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    It's more photo 2 we are pointing two, however he could have had a higher and tighter grip on the tricep in photo A...I've noticed when hitting this move through the years your hand tends to slip a bit so grabbing higher up and pinching your elbow to your body will help a lot.
     
  20. armtriangle Brown Belt

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    exactly. the second photo. you basically want to keep your own elbow, pinned to your side.

    also he could get a better angle on the shot, creating more pull on the arm.

    its a little decieving because teh partner doesnt sprawl at all, his feet never move. they opponent will sprawl, so you grip on teh leg will be higher up on the thigh
     

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