The entire rap genre transformed at the exact same time the entire rock genre transformed

phoenixikki said:
You guys watched the movie yesterday and now are thinking that NWA were the Beatles or some shit. They were never that popular.
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Dont try and school me, I was born in 1976 and I lived through it, they were insanely popular
Im guessing you didnt which is why you dont understand
 
Pliny Pete said:
Dont try and school me, I was born in 1976 and I lived through it, they were insanely popular
Im guessing you didnt which is why you dont understand
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Cool story bro.
I bet you were in Compton when NWA started as well.
 
Agent Mulder's Hair said:
I just realized something I never thought about before. I was in my Will Smith thread saying the song I posted was released in 1988. And if you're old enough you'll remember almost all rap songs back in 1988 had a very similar style to what Fresh Prince and Jazzy Jeff had. And they were mostly east coast guys on the radio back then. But then NWA released Straight Outta Compton that same year 1988, and transformed rap forever.

After NWA came out, nobody wanted to hear corny, positive hip hop. We wanted to hear about that thug life. So rap became darker and harder. Edgier. More gritty and realistic. The WHOLE rap genre had to adapt or die off. Even MC Hammer released Pumps In The Bump trying to adapt to the new style (didn't work. Still was a decent song though.).


OK, so now look at the rock genre. There's no argument that after Nirvana came out with the Nevermind album, the entire rock genre was changed forever. And I mean transformed completely. Remember we went from 80's hair metal like Van Halen and positive rock like Eddie Money or Bon Jovi......we went from THAT....to depressing lyrics, screaming, guitar distortion, more realism, a harder sound, and much more edge.


ok check this out:


Nirvana came out in 89 with the Bleach album. But Nevermind put them in the entire countries ear. Nevermind was released in 1991.


So how crazy of a coincidence is it that NWA came out with some hard shit, Straight Outta Compton, that didn't sound like ANYTHING anybody had ever heard before, and transformed their genre........at almost the exact same time Nirvana came out with some hard shit, Smells Like Teen Spirit, that didn't sound like ANYTHING anybody had ever heard before....and transformed THEIR genre too?!



NWA came out in 1988 but I don't think they blew up nationwide until around 1990...maybe late 89. Nirvana came out in 1988 but blew up when Teen Spirit started airing, which was 1991.

Both these bands came out and made almost everybody else in their genre obsolete. And with both bands the transformation of their ENTIRE genre was complete by 1994.
By 1994 in RAP - you didn't hear styles like Fresh Prince, LL Cool J, Run DMC....those styles were DONE. By 94 you heard Dr. Dre, Snoop, Tupac, Biggie, Warren G, Bone thugs, etc.
By 1994 in ROCK - you didn't hear styles like Eddie Money, Van Halen or Bon Jovi. No you heard Stone Temple Pilots, Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, Smashing Pumpkins, etc.




Another similarity is that Nirvana created two new subgenres of music....grunge and alternative rock. And that in turn created 2 new SUBCULTURES OF PEOPLE, and social trends, fashion, attitudes.
NWA created a new subgenre of hip hop, Ganster Rap. Which in turn created a new subculture of people, social trends, fashion, and attitudes. Both subcultures wore a lot of flannel shirts too, and baggy pants, and beanies. It was weird.


I have no point here, lol. I just find it interesting and a little weird that both rap and rock changed in almost the exact same ways, starting at nearly the same time, and both being completed by 1994. There are a LOT of similarities there that I never noticed. So what's up with that? Why did that happen with both genres and why did it happen with both genres at the same time? And it goes deeper than the music genres changing. If you remember, those changes in rap and in rock changed our entire culture! Or at least the subcultures of rap fans and rock fans. Black people started dressing in flannel, big baggy pants, beanies, dew rags, etc. And rock fans started dressing in flannel (another similarity!) shirts, fairly baggy pants, beanies, skate shoes, etc.
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You wrote a book there, dude.

Have you ever heard of Bam's Bieberverse?
 
I think it’s likely because the national consciousness was changing at the time. People wanted something different than the status quo. That permeated throughout all American culture, music included.
 
Early rap (80s/90s) was actually tolerable. It hasn't been tolerable for close to 2 decades now.
 
blaseblah said:
Buddy Holly didn't create rock or have a hand in its creation. He heard it and decided to make that style of music. Black musicians created rock.
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Some folks seem to consider it an amalgamation of styles that are cross-cultural.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_roll

The origins of rock and roll have been fiercely debated by commentators and historians of music.[20] There is general agreement that it arose in the Southern United States – a region which would produce most of the major early rock and roll acts – through the meeting of various influences that embodied a merging of the African musical tradition with European instrumentation.[21] The migration of many former slaves and their descendants to major urban centers such as St. Louis, Memphis, New York City, Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, and Buffalo (See: Second Great Migration (African American)) meant that black and white residents were living in close proximity in larger numbers than ever before, and as a result heard each other's music and even began to emulate each other's fashions.[22][23] Radio stations that made white and black forms of music available to both groups, the development and spread of the gramophone record, and African-American musical styles such as jazz and swing which were taken up by white musicians, aided this process of "cultural collision".
Chuck Berry in 1957
The immediate roots of rock and roll lay in the rhythm and blues, then called "race music",[25] and country music of the 1940s and 1950s.[20] Particularly significant influences were jazz, blues, gospel, country, and folk.[20] Commentators differ in their views of which of these forms were most important and the degree to which the new music was a re-branding of African-American rhythm and blues for a white market, or a new hybrid of black and white forms.
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Agent Mulder's Hair said:
For me they did. I never heard the term "alternative rock" before Nirvana. I figured it was because Nirvana didn't fit into a genre. Wasn't punk, wasn't metal, wasn't rock. What is it? So I started hearing Alternative Rock being said then. But all kinds of shit fit that category. Lisa Loeb, Gin Blossoms, Dave Matthews, NIN, Ben Folds Five, etc. So "alt rock" became synonymous with the Lisa Loeb style. The kind of stuff they played in coffee houses. Basically the Reality Bites soundtrack. lol

And Grunge (the PERFECT word for Nirvana's sound btw) broke off of "Alternative" and became it's own thing.


And yeah I didn't know how good the UK scene was back then. In the US we got a few of your bands like Oasis, Blur...i can't remember any others right now. Oh yeah Spice Girls! lol . ChumbaWumba.
Years later I realized you UK fuckers had an outstanding music scene back then. For real. We just didn't have much access to it over here. And I'm not sure how much of our music you guys had access to back then, either.





I disagree but I can see the argument. Both were great and kind of similar.

Same way Nirvana and Pearl Jam were similar, I guess.
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Mother love bone was a huge influence on nirvana and Pearl Jam. Mother Love Bone influenced the whole Seattle grunge sound.
 
blaseblah said:
Are you dense?
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You're welcome to your opinion. I'd suggest demonstrating an understudying of my position first. I'll rephrase. Regardless of who is credited with the "first" Rock song, my point is that it evolved (and continues to) from multicultural influence. After all, the sound didn't originate in Africa. It just popped out of nowhere because blacks in the South weren't exposed to whitey's music? :D

If it moves this along I'm happy to concede the lion's share to the brothers.

l@nd0
 
I disagree with Nirvana creating both grunge and/or alternative rock. Both of those genres were well before Nirvana. They helped popularize them to mainstream audiences, but they didn't create anything. Black Flag and The Melvins were the progenitors of grunge, The U-Men being perhaps the first band to perfect the Seattle sound, the term credited to a member of Mudhoney. There were countless alternative bands well before Nirvana. Alternative Rock itself is a blanket term for rock music that wasn't popular or played on the radio. Sonic Youth is an example, forming in the early 80's. More early examples are Big Black, Pixies, Bauhaus, Cocteau Twins, Dinosaur Jr., Talking Heads, Christian Death, The Smiths, etc., etc... And even before that, Lou Reed/Velvet Underground, early punk (Ramones, New York Dolls), Iggy Pop/The Stooges, The Cars... There were a shit load of alternative rock bands long before Nirvana was even a possibility.

Nirvana DID bring about a lot of change, and their influence is undeniable, but their sound was borrowed and Kurt was quoted as saying that he was just trying to rip off Pixies.
 
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Adamant said:
Early rap (80s/90s) was actually tolerable. It hasn't been tolerable for close to 2 decades now.
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You ever give the Trip Hop genre a chance? It came out around the same time Gangsta rap did. I felt while NWA was dumbing down the genre Trip hop was taking it to loftier levels with its constant experimentation and blending of other genres into a hip hop base.
 
The only thing Nirvana was good for was bringing attention to the other seattle bans that had musical talent.
 
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