The decline of Dutch Kickboxing

When Bob Sapp beat Ernesto Hoost, people realised that it was a waste of time if it can't even stop NFL based guys.
 
It was a niche sport when the Dutch dominated it (in the heavier weight classes, at >70kg they get destroyed by Thais 9/10 in kickboxing and 99/100 in MT) and the world is now not only catching up, but in countries other than the Netherlands they are not as braindead to think high guard + waiting for your turn to spam a Tekken 3 combo is the be all end all way of drilling/sparring/fighting in kickboxing.

Better said, since access to training in Thailand is so easy nowadays in a globalized world, they can just train muay thai there and then cross train boxing for the punches/head movement/footwork.

When eventually kickboxing is going to be fought in 4 oz gloves like Muay Thai in One for example, the Dutch way of kickboxing will be exposed even more. 99% of the Dutch kickboxers use little to no parries or head movement, which would cost them much more in 4 oz glove fights.
 
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It was a niche sport when the Dutch dominated it (in the heavier weight classes, at >70kg they get destroyed by Thais 9/10 in kickboxing and 99/100 in MT) and the world is now not only catching up, but in countries other than the Netherlands they are not as braindead to think high guard + waiting for your turn to spam a Tekken 3 combo is the end all be all way of drilling/sparring/fighting in kickboxing.

Better said, since access to training in Thailand is so easy nowadays in a globalized world, they can just train muay thai there and then cross train boxing for the punches/head movement/footwork.

When eventually kickboxing is going to be fought in 4 oz gloves like Muay Thai in One for example, the Dutch way of kickboxing will be exposed even more. 99% of the Dutch kickboxers use little to no parries or head movement, which would cost them much more in 4 oz glove fights.

 
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I am Dutch by the way :). I started out in Dutch style kickboxing, then switched to boxing and now I only cross train MT (not kickboxing) on my trips to Thailand (where I have lived 6 months over the past 15 months). Like I said, Dutch style kickboxing doesn't have a long time left in One/Glory/etc. and when the organisations introduce 4 oz gloves fights it will be the final nail in the coffin. The stationary high guard tekken 3 combo spammers will be replaced by complete fighters with more elusiveness, more weapons, more variety and more defensive/counter tools at disposal.
 
I am Dutch by the way :). I started out in Dutch style kickboxing, then switched to boxing and now I only cross train MT (not kickboxing) on my trips to Thailand (where I have lived 6 months over the past 15 months). Like I said, Dutch style kickboxing doesn't have a long time left in One/Glory/etc. and when the organisations introduce 4 oz gloves fights it will be the final nail in the coffin. The stationary high guard tekken 3 combo spammers will be replaced by complete fighters with more elusiveness, more weapons, more variety and more defensive/counter tools at disposal.
I mean, that's not the only style Dutch fighters are using, but this notion that this is a completely ineffective style just isn't true and it's always going to be part of the sport. Kickboxing is not transitioning to MMA gloves, so I'm not sure where you are getting this. Weird that you completely ignore Japanese Kickboxing in both of your posts which isn't much different from the Dutch style with emphasis on hand combinations, and it's a bigger scene than the Dutch one.
 
Back in the 80's and 90's, the Dutch competed under full Muay Thai rules whenever they could and made trips to Thailand. While their skills weren't quite up to par with most ranked fighters in Lumpini and Rajadamnern, they did have their successes like Ivan Hippolyte beating Pompetch Naratreekul for the WMC middleweight title, Gilbert Ballantine winning over the great Sangtiennoi, and especially Rayen Simson triumphing over Lamsonkram Chuwattana, Orono Por Muangubon, and Pajonsuk Lukprabat; all champions. Nowadays, the money is all in modified Kickboxing rules; punches, kicks, knees, and limited clinching/neck-wrestling (if at all).

It is disappointing that there's too many fighters spamming punches and low kicks. When Dutch Kickboxing was developing, their fighters competed under any rule set to earn money as well as gain experience. That's why Rob Kaman did Muay Thai with elbows against Krongsak, WKA matches that allowed low kicks, and matches with above-the-waist techniques only. So they were forced to hone their striking game to be broad and efficient. But their current gyms are integrating more and more Muay Thai with their old-school Kickboxing roots since ONE FC is a great avenue for them to experiment and refine their new crop of fighters since it allows full MT rules as well as Kickboxing.
 
Back in the 80's and 90's, the Dutch competed under full Muay Thai rules whenever they could and made trips to Thailand. While their skills weren't quite up to par with most ranked fighters in Lumpini and Rajadamnern, they did have their successes like Ivan Hippolyte beating Pompetch Naratreekul for the WMC middleweight title, Gilbert Ballantine winning over the great Sangtiennoi, and especially Rayen Simson triumphing over Lamsonkram Chuwattana, Orono Por Muangubon, and Pajonsuk Lukprabat; all champions. Nowadays, the money is all in modified Kickboxing rules; punches, kicks, knees, and limited clinching/neck-wrestling (if at all).

It is disappointing that there's too many fighters spamming punches and low kicks. When Dutch Kickboxing was developing, their fighters competed under any rule set to earn money as well as gain experience. That's why Rob Kaman did Muay Thai with elbows against Krongsak, WKA matches that allowed low kicks, and matches with above-the-waist techniques only. So they were forced to hone their striking game to be broad and efficient. But their current gyms are integrating more and more Muay Thai with their old-school Kickboxing roots since ONE FC is a great avenue for them to experiment and refine their new crop of fighters since it allows full MT rules as well as Kickboxing.
Some nice fights you are mentioning there.
Hippolyte beating Jomhod Kiatadisak in his prime, by KO, is also one of the fights I remember..
 
Some nice fights you are mentioning there.
Hippolyte beating Jomhod Kiatadisak in his prime, by KO, is also one of the fights I remember..
It's amazing how Hippolyte was able to pull this off. It's why anything can happen in a fight.

I hope in the near future that the Dutch can finally snag a Lumpini and/or Rajadamnern stadium title. And decisively on points with masterful kicks, knees, and especially neck-wrestling/clinching.
 
It's amazing how Hippolyte was able to pull this off. It's why anything can happen in a fight.

I hope in the near future that the Dutch can finally snag a Lumpini and/or Rajadamnern stadium title. And decisively on points with masterful kicks, knees, and especially neck-wrestling/clinching.
Unfortunately the Dutch seem to neglect those aspects more than anyone. We will probably have 10 French champions before we get 1 Dutch.
 
From what I’ve seen there is an abundant amount Moroccan, Turkish, & Surinamese kickboxers that were born in Holland or train there.

Maybe not ethnically Dutch but they’re still brought up in that style.
 
Keep that to yourself please. You are embarrassing us!

Ik ga niet liegen om de waarheid te verstoppen :). Nederlandse kickboks is gebaseerd op Japanse kickboks wat een stijl is gebaseerd op Muay Thai (toen hun karatekas in elkaar werden geslagen in de jaren 70 door nak muays en ze Japanse kickboks hadden opgericht net zoals de Kungfu vechters in China in de jaren 70 die ook in elkaar geslagen werden door nak muays vervolgens Sanda hadden opgericht). De perfecte striking base voor MMA is boks training (want 4oz handschoenen, gecombineerd met maandje of 1 á 2 in Muay Thai trainen in Thailand per jaar). Het is toch geen rocket science om je grotendeels te focussen op boks fundamentals en dat te combineren met muay thai fundamentals die je 1 a 2 maanden per jaar in Thailand leert. In MMA gaan vechters niet wachten tot je je hoge dekking gaat gebruiken en wachten tot jij je 1-2-3 lowkick tekken 3 achtige combo gooit, MMA striking is een stuk dynamischer dan dat. Dat is een reden waarom iemand als een K1 legende als Gokhan Saki verliest door een simpele naakte lowkick te gooien tegen een nobody als Khalil Rountree die vervolgens countert met een overhand, die vervolgens verliest van een gast als Johnny Walker die niet eens een top 3/5 striker in LHW is (met alle respect naar hem toe, heb hem IRL ontmoet toen ik in Phuket aan het trainen was). K1 achtige kickboxing is leuk om naar te kijken als het om 2 vechters gaat die met diezelfde k1 stijl vechten, maar in MMA heb je een grotere cage om je voetenwerk te gebruiken en je tegenstanders hebben waarschijnlijk een betere understanding van boxing en muay thai fundamentals (tenzij ze hersendode mongolen zijn). Nederlandse stijl kickboksen is een gedateerde stijl van vechten die werkte in K1/Glory toen andere landen behalve Thailand enig verstand hadden van staand vechten. Vandaag de dag zijn de elite vechters uit Frankrijk of Brazilië zelfs superieur aan de staande vechters uit Nederland in kickboksen laat staan 4 oz One Championship Muay Thai of MMA. Ik heb niks tegen de Nederlandse stijl van staand vechten maar het is inferieur aan de Chinese/Japanse stijl van staand vechten laat staan Muay Thai. Ik ben een Bosnische (van m'n moeders kant) Nederlander en ik gun Nederlanders (ongeacht afkomst natuurlijk, Turks, Marokkaans of Surinaams/Antiliaans) het beste. Maar mijn mening is gebaseerd op statistisch bewijs en mijn anekdotische ervaring in Thailand). K1 dutch style kickboksen is gedateerd voor moderne stand up striking en als je een uitgebreidere uitleg nodig hebt leg ik je met alle plezier de redenen hiervoor in details uit in m'n PM's. Soms heb je negatieve kritici als ik nodig om je binnenlandse stijl te verbeteren. Fijne avond.
 
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