The debate I have been noticing

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by -Montanha-, Aug 10, 2010.

  1. -Montanha-

    -Montanha- Blue Belt

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    There were a lot of guys cheering on Sonnen last Saturday and took the loss pretty hard.

    Things like this have been written by the sport's commentators;

    "Sonnen lost as respectably as you can. But it
     
  2. Higher Learning

    Higher Learning Brown Belt

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    thats something people have really not mentioned very much... the almost negligent damage anderson sustained despite how dominant sonnen looked
     
  3. Jagcorps_esq

    Jagcorps_esq Red Belt

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    Silva won. That is undeniable.

    That being said, he won in the last 1:30 seconds of the fight. Sonnen kept it together for 23.5 minutes and if he'd kept it together for a little longer, he would have won decisively.

    He presented more trouble for Silva than we've ever really seen him face.

    Does that diminish from his victory? I don't think so....I think it makes it more valuable.

    Why give Sonnen a rematch at some point? Because it was an entertaining fight that he very nearly won. Just as this was a good victory for Silva, it was a good loss for Sonnen. Better than a win? Of course not, but much better than being utterly dominated. I know that I've heard many here use before the concept of a good loss...meaning that a person looked very good in a fight and even though they lost, they made an impression. Sonnen did that and to ignore it is unfair.
     
  4. FunkyRMe

    FunkyRMe White Belt

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    People wanna see a rematch because Silva was being dominated and caught. It's awesome and that's what Jiu-Jitsu is all about but Silva didn't go in there pulling guard, when went throwing strikes. I wanna give mad props to Silva for pulling of the win but he was getting his ass kicked. For every bit of praise silva gets for catches shonnen, Shonnen should get for getting constant take downs and smothering him in guard.

    People probably wouldn't be screaming for a rematch if Nelson would have caught Dos Santos in the 3rd round. I think peoples attitudes have a lot more to do with the hype around the fight than the actual circumstances.
     
  5. Joose

    Joose Purple Belt

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    Sonnen deserves the rematch. Thats the simple end to it. You dominate a man for that long and lose like that you deserve a rematch, the fans deserve a rematch and Anderson can prove that he was injured beyond belief and him getting dominated for that long was a fluke.
     
  6. Jagcorps_esq

    Jagcorps_esq Red Belt

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    I wouldn't fall into this trap.

    Some people cut, bleed and bruise much easier than others.

    While I doubt many of Sonnen's punches did much of anything other than annoy Silva, Sonnen did land some very quality punches. I'd hate to see what Forrest's face would look like after some of those punches.

    Silva just doesn't bruise or cut easily at all, it seems.
     
  7. Dake

    Dake Blue Belt

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    Agreed. Another guy who doesn't mark up too much is Nate Diaz. If you look at him and Maynard after their fight, you'd swear Maynard was hit by a semi, and Diaz looked like he maybe tripped and fell or something.
     
  8. Higher Learning

    Higher Learning Brown Belt

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    nate cuts easy, maynard glanced and missed most of his shots in that fight and nate was hitting him a lot cleaner it just that he throws short punches and they don't look as impressive

    as for silva not markintg i think that yes he seem sto wear the punches well but he also did not look tired or hurt to me coming into that final round at all
     
  9. platfox

    platfox Silver Belt

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    People want to see a competitive fight. Sonnen is the only person to give him one since he came to the UFC. I also think people want to see Sonnen be champ just so we can hear the outrageous stuff he'll say.
     
  10. LilMountain

    LilMountain Section 20 Operative

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    No, if had somehow gotten screwed on the decision he would deserve a rematch, he got finished, so he doesn't.
     
  11. Jagcorps_esq

    Jagcorps_esq Red Belt

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    I don't really want him to be champ and honestly, I wish he'd just shut up. If he had kept his mouth shut and had behaved respectfully, I think many more people would be giving him credit for one of the best fights he's ever had.

    I wanted him to win, because I wanted Silva humbled, hungry and ready to get back to what he does best...being an assassin rather than being asinine.

    I'm very hopeful that this fight did enough to make that happen. Silva certainly didn't do any dancing and came out swinging. That's what I want to see. If Silva can finish someone in 2 minutes, do it.
     
  12. Jagcorps_esq

    Jagcorps_esq Red Belt

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    He doesn't deserve an immediate rematch, but if he can win one fight, I think he should get a rematch.

    You're flat out lying if you won't admit that Sonnen fought extremely well and was close to winning that fight.

    He lost, plain and simple, but it was a very good fight and his stock should not plummet.
     
  13. Title Fight Productions

    Title Fight Productions Steel Belt

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    I agree with most everything you are saying except the nonsense about Chael not deserving a rematch.
     
  14. randomg1t

    randomg1t EVERYTIME CHAMPION

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    i think when the question "Who is the better fighter?" was posed, the writer was actually implying anderson is better.

    and i think beating the crap out of the arguably p4p best fighter in the world for 23 minutes warrants sonnen some praise. had he just talked mad shit and got KTFO in the first exchange, people would be all over him. but he hyped the fight well and he gave anderson hell.

    he got finished in the end, but while we shouldn't glorify his efforts we shouldn't be like the HW forum either where the performance means shit and penn is "only 2-2 in his last 4 fights". there's more to a fighter than his W/L ratio and sonnen fought a good fight. nothing more, nothing less.
     
  15. fourfif**

    fourfif** Banned Banned

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    it was like paulo fihlo all over again....
     
  16. platfox

    platfox Silver Belt

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    Agree he doesn't deserve an immediate rematch. I don't think anyone does except if there was a clear referee error. If you just lost, why the heck would you get a redo? For example the BJ/Edgar rematch. Basically Dana is saying to Edgar that it was a fluke and he couldn't do it again.

    Also I hate having to watch two guys who just fought a few months ago fight again.

    I do think Sonnen deserves a rematch if he beats a top 5 guy.
     
  17. Joose

    Joose Purple Belt

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    Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. So by that logic GSP didn't deserve a rematch with hughes, Fedor doesn't deserve a rematch with Werdum, Gsp didn't deserve a rematch with Serra etc...

    Lets think of it this way since it's a grappling forum, lets think of it like striking. If a fighter had been beating the shit out of another for the entire fight and then gets caught with some right hook (pick a punch) and get's knocked out cold, that fighter doesn't deserve a rematch because he got finished?

    I'm not saying immediate like Shogun/Machida, but you'd be fooling yourself and the entire mma community if you said sonnen shouldn't get a shot sometime down the road.
     
  18. Amiro

    Amiro Orange Belt

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    i thought anderson was going to destroy him even though i wanted sonnen to winand my mates thought sonnen would win

    we spent the whole fight talking about the theories about why sonnen was better and then he lost. (silva fighting wrestlers, takedowns, the hype, andersons 'elusiveness', etc)

    im guessing most of the people watching were also doing the same thing.

    andersons win was a suprise, and i guess upsetting for the people that wanted sonnen to win.

    at the end i was hit by like 3 or 4 WTF moments in a row, like 'omg hes tapping', 'why isnt he letting go', 'shit hes cranking it now', 'he tapped wheres the ref', 'lol andersons kicking him off', 'why arent they saying anything about the stoppage'...

    it was a good event as a whole and i enjoyed it.

    i think he sonnen did really well until he lost. then i lost a lot of respect for him. not because he lost, but because of how he instinctively handled losing in the moment.

    then all the talk about how in pride they appreciate fighters that put it all out there etc but really in pride sonnen would have been shameful for doing that at the end.

    i dont really want to see a rematch.
     
  19. LilMountain

    LilMountain Section 20 Operative

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    GSP had to fight how many more fights before he got the rematch with Hughes? Fedor deserves it based on the strength of his overall record, GSP deserved it against Serra as the former titleholder. If Sonnen was the champ and he got beat then I'd be all for giving him a shot at getting it back, but he wasn't, and his record isn't anything which warrants special treatment, so if he wants to win 4-5 more times fine, but that's just working your way back up again, he would have earned that if he got KO'd on the first punch.
     
  20. JayOliver

    JayOliver Green Belt

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    Based on what Sonnen did in the fight before getting tapped, he is probably one or two wins away from getting back into the cage for a rematch and/or title shot. He put in four plus rounds of very good work against arguably the best pound for pound fighter in MMA.

    I'm not so much a fan of immediate rematches and think that they should be reserved for dubious decisions and injury/cut stoppages. Sonnen was pitching a shut out but there was a definitive ending to that fight.
     

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