Media The Day 'White Bear' tried to hit a leg lock on... 'Ashikan Judan' (!?)... # 45

Discussion in 'Worldwide MMA Discussion' started by gono btw, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. gono btw

    gono btw Rounds...

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    This series 'The Day...' is about 'extraordinary' moments in NHB/Vale Tudo history.

    Today: [UK Scene]



    Was @ CAGE RAGE 25 'BRING IT ON'
    [Mar 8, 2008 - London, England]

    Masakazu 'Ashikan Judan' [“The Great Master of Leg Submissions”] Imanari vs Jean 'White Bear' Silva [BJJ/Capoeira]

    Masakazu Imanari vs Jean Silva [Cage Rage 25] - 5.png


    Everythin´ was goin´ well..
    [White Bear took Imanari down, and got the top position, and was workin´ well],

    > Edit: after watchin´the complete technical sequence: this part is inaccurate.
    > See the Deconstruction of the complete technical sequence in the 13th post of this thread.

    ... and... then somethin´went wrong...


    20 - Masakazu Imanari vs Jean Silva [Cage Rage 25] - 1.gif 20 - Masakazu Imanari vs Jean Silva [Cage Rage 25] - 2.gif

    What...are...ya....doin´...Jean ?!?

    wtf2.gif


    No doubt, the kid´s got balls...

    BJ no.gif

    ...his heel´s gone...

    Spider.png

    20 - Masakazu Imanari vs Jean Silva [Cage Rage 25] - 4.gif 20 - Masakazu Imanari vs Jean Silva [Cage Rage 25] 2.gif

    20 - Masakazu Imanari vs Jean Silva [Cage Rage 25].gif


    happy 20 - Masakazu Imanari vs Jean Silva [Cage Rage 25].gif



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    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019 at 1:20 AM
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  2. EndlessCritic

    EndlessCritic Gold Belt

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    What an odd thread.

    Jean Silva's error was trying to throw a spinning kick at Imanari while Imanari was on the ground, thus putting himself in a leg lock. That was the idiotic move, not trying a counter leg lock.
     
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  3. gono btw

    gono btw Rounds...

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    Dunno where I put it, but Im gonna try to find & post the whole fight & technical sequence.
    IIRC Jean was the one who initiated the technical sequence, no counter leg lock.
     
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  4. EndlessCritic

    EndlessCritic Gold Belt

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    Well you're wrong.



    Jean throws a leg kick, and Imanari falls to his back.

    While Imanari is on his back, Jean Silva throws a goofy spinning back kick, literally giving Imanari the 50/50 position.

    This thread should be about that kick.
     
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  5. gono btw

    gono btw Rounds...

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    hmmm..yeah, your video is bigger & more complete than my gif indeed;
    still I would say that Imanari´s leg lock was not 'locked' (see his grip on Jean´s legs) when Jean decided to pull back & go for his own attempt.
    And that was the decidin´move imo: he should have defended it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  6. EndlessCritic

    EndlessCritic Gold Belt

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    He does defend. Look at how at 2:21 he is holding Imanari's left foot with his right hand.

    However Imanari off balances him, and Silva has no choice but to post on the ground with his right hand to avoid the sweep. The moment Silva puts his hand on the floor to post, Imanari reaps the knee, essentially sealing Silva's fate.

    Further, rather than going for a counter leg lock while they're rolling, it's clear Jean is trying to use his left foot to strip Imanari's grip.
     
  7. gono btw

    gono btw Rounds...

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    Kindah disagree, mate.
    Jean actually tried to play the 2 options: defensive & offensive (ie not losin´the top position essentially, b4 his sub attempt).

    I´ll try to find & drop the technical sequence, but IIRC, Osawa was in the same position against Imanari, and unlike Jean gave up on his potential heel hook attempt to get closer to Imanari & defend the hold.

    @ 2mn28-9: ya can see that Imanari´s grip is actually not that tight and ready to lose the hold, that´s where Jean had a potential opportunity to break the hold, even if it meant losin´the top position next.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  8. EndlessCritic

    EndlessCritic Gold Belt

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    It's unclear what's happening in that sequence because Silva's right foot is strangely around Imanari's head initially. It appears the moment Imanari clears the foot from his head and into the 50/50 is the precise moment when Jean falls. But it's not obvious who is initiating what.
     
  9. gono btw

    gono btw Rounds...

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    Anyway, I edited the OP, indeed I had an inaccurate recollection of the very beginnin´of that technical sequence...
     
  10. Saku'sEar

    Saku'sEar Green Belt

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    Imanari was one crazy guy.
    His leglogs were on another level at the time.
     
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  11. OneManOrgy

    OneManOrgy Dude

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    Remember when Cage Rage would stream their events for free? I watched this fight live. Damn, it's been a while.
     
  12. HHJ

    HHJ Jeg reiser til mørkets dyp der alt er dødt.

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    i liked jean silva,i dunno why pride didnt use him more. I guess he was too small.
     
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  13. gono btw

    gono btw Rounds...

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    I finally found the complete footage, better image & zooms.


    This technical sequence is actually not that simple & can hardly be reduced to the initial part @ 2:21.
    In other words, Silva´s fate was definitely not "sealed" at that moment.

    The way I see it, it can be deconstructed in 5 subsequences :

    Subsequence 1: Offensive Silva.

    Masakazu Imanari vs Jean Silva [Cage Rage 25] - 1.gif

    That capoeira kick could hardly be thread-worthy : spinnin´shit or not, it´s definitely not the 1st time that one of his opponents tries to blast him while he´s on the butt scoot position.
    See:
    Fabio Mello
    (postin´the gif in the next post)

    tbh between Silva´s move and watchin´ a completely terrified Bibiano (BJJ BB !) starin´ at Imanari in the butt scoot position, I side with White Bear.

    Subsequence 2: Defensive Silva.

    Masakazu Imanari vs Jean Silva [Cage Rage 25] - 2.gif

    Here, Imanari´s forcin´ Silva to remain defensive, but the position is still not stable & he needs to drag him onto the ground to secure the hold.
    Silva´s oblique position still makes it difficult to transition to a better hold onto Silva´s leg.

    Subsequence 3: Offensive Silva.


    Masakazu Imanari vs Jean Silva [Cage Rage 25] - 3.gif

    I said earlier in this thread that this technical sequence reminded me of the Ashikan Judan vs Kenji Osawa fight.
    Checkin´:

    Masakazu Imanari vs Kenji Osawa [Dream. Fight for Japan!].gif Masakazu Imanari vs Kenji Osawa [Dream. Fight for Japan!] 2.gif

    @1mn43:


    Imanari was actually in a much better position: better grip onto Osawa´s legs, stable position on the ground (not oblique).
    Same dilemma for Osawa: his instinctive reaction is to play the 50/50 game & try to threaten with a heel hook.
    But he´s late, acknowledges it (also realizes that, given Imanari´s expertise in this move, it´s indeed quite futile...) & gives up on his heel hook attempt (still spends some 8 sec to come to his senses tho...).
    He then decides to get closer to Imanari & proceeds to slow his progression.
    A few seconds later, he´s out of danger.

    As I said earlier in this thread, @ 2mn28-9: ya can see that Imanari´s grip is actually not that tight and ready to lose the hold, that´s where Jean had a potential opportunity to break the hold, even if it meant losin´the top position next.
    His options were then:
    > settle for the 50/50 position & try to outsmart Imanari
    or:
    > acknowledge that, since the hold was broken, it was better to give up on the 50/50 position: give Imanari the dominant position, play the guard game, or even (given his agility as a Capoeirista) try to push him back with kicks.

    Reminder: as far as I can remember, most if not all (except one: against Renato Tavares) submission wins came off his back.
    The guard game was arguably a more realistic option than the 50/50 one.


    Subsequence 4: Offensive Silva.

    Masakazu Imanari vs Jean Silva [Cage Rage 25] - 4.gif Masakazu Imanari vs Jean Silva [Cage Rage 25] - 5.gif

    Now, it´s quite fascinatin´: they rolled, and obviously while rollin´ Imanari (given his experience in this technical move) didnt stop adjustin´ his hold.
    Now pay attention to Silva´s posture: Imanari´s grip is no longer tight, he´s securin´Silva´s ankle with one hand.
    Meanwhile, while Imanari´s readjustin´, here Silva has the opportunity to fight the hold with...kicks (pushin´or kickin´). Silva´s a capoeirista & agility, especially when it comes to kicks on the ground, is one of his strengths.
    Note: here, Silva´s got the reach advantage > Silva is 5´8 vs 5´5 for Imanari.

    vlcsnap-2019-08-13-20h17m20s093.png

    vlcsnap-2019-08-13-20h17m40s688.png

    His left leg can easily reach Imanari´s head.


    But, again, Silva doesnt seem interested in focussin´ solely on defense, he´s still tryin´ to settle in the 50/50 position & counter Imanari with a heel hook of his own.


    Subsequence 5: Offensive Silva.

    Masakazu Imanari vs Jean Silva [Cage Rage 25] - 6.gif

    Final sequence: while rollin´, Silva´s got his 2 hands on Imanari´s ankle & still tryin´ to get the submission.
    He doesnt even seem interested in usin´his left leg
    to hit Ashikan´s head (even avoidin´it carefully...) or pushin´ him...


    CONCLUSION:
    White Bear´s insistence on playin´the 50/50 game with Ashikan Judan was extraordinary, not the flashy spinnin´ Capoeira kick that initiated this technical sequence.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019 at 8:53 PM
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  14. gono btw

    gono btw Rounds...

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  15. RDUBYA

    RDUBYA an oldie but a goodie

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    I was there for this, was literally
    [​IMG]

    Silva was always great fun at CR...definitely had half a screw loose.
     
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  16. InfinityLens

    InfinityLens Black Belt

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    Can Cage Rage from 2008 really NHB or Vale Tudo?
     
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