The Day Hoyce became World LHW (!) Champ... # 42

[gono btw]

This series 'The Day...' is about 'extraordinary' moments in NHB/Vale Tudo history.

Today: [American NHB Scene]


Credentials...when you need´em...








His record should be reassessed. Period.

https://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Royce-Gracie-19



Actually, Horion provided a doc. from a BJJ organization [Federação de JJ do Estado do Rio de Janeiro] in Brazil that claimed Royce was their World LHW Champ, with a record of 132-1 as an amateur, & 14- 0 as a Pro.

Spoiler: Dont tell it to...

Helson, tho...

Spoiler: 'THE DAY...' Theads

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-death-master-stormed-into-the-vale-tudo-scene-24.3882431/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...enio-tadeu-climb-back-in-the-ring-34.3933271/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...ly-really-intimate-with-the-pedro-30.3905323/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...d-to-face-2-opponents-in-the-ring-33.3924541/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-nilson-de-castro-chuteboxe-kept-flyin´outside-the-ring-32.3913987/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-teeth-kept-flyin´-ivc-31.3907739/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-machida-got-inspired-by-marcelo-tigre´s-drink-29.3901939/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-bjj-jorge-pereira-fearing-a-riot-27.3894033/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-the-hold-at-the-end-of-the-round-28.3896733/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...ary-side-of-the-russian-nhb-scene-35.3853211/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-yamasaki-got-inspired-to-become-a-ref-26.3885363/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...ck-b4-coning-mayweather-this-week-25.3863593/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-nobody-knew-if-sauer-had-tapped-or-not-23.3886109/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-takeo-yano-george-gracie-both-went-lights-out-22.3881991/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-drago-felt-happy-wand-wasnt-cornerin´-the-other-side-21.3873849/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-tank-inspired-coleman-20.3879835/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-little-volk-forgot-to-grapple-in-rings-19.3878575/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-want-usuta-to-tap-against-wallid-18.3877671/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-leg-lock-master-met-manos-de-piedra-36.3876141/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-coleman-went-full-roid-rage-in-brazil-17.3874387/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-saad-muhammad-promised-a-ko-against-tamura-16.3875713/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...k-hands-then-gave-ilyukhin-a-hand-15.3864713/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-kurmanov-the-boxer-submitted-ahmedov-the-jj-14.3874565/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-oleg-forgot-about-the-special-rule-13.3853539/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-sergei-akinin-launched-a-new-mma-gear-12.3872407/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-henzo-had-to-make-alvarenga-tap-several-times-11.3871109/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-amar-suloev-mightymoused-oganov-10.3871769/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-couture-got-played-by-ilyukhin-9.3866571/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-yvel-bit-barkalaev-volk-han-slapped-the-ref-8.3863115/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-tamura-forgot-to-shake-hands-with-yamamoto-7.3863509/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-marco-huas-went-full-babalu-toquinho-6.3852863/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-paulson-got-kimo-ed-badly-5.3831975/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-paulson-had-to-tap-with-his-foot-on-ronin´s-head-4.3830825/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-rei-zulu-machida-ed-sergio-batarelli-3.3828423/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-igor-showed-his-genuine-side-2.3821765/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-pelé-settled-the-score-in-the-ring-1.3812249/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-the-doc-had-to-check-the-cut-during-the-gnp-36.3941549/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...capoeira-nation-against-chuteboxe-37.3949335/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-sakakibara-asked-chuteboxe-to-kill-saku-38.3955161/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-yuji-shimada-daisuke-noguchi-did-ken-dirty-39.3961513/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-saku-crossed-paths-with-beat-takeshi-kitano-40.3730649/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-ufc-1-was-really-born-41.3964531/

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-enson-inoue-desgraced-himself-against-rei-zulu.3878069/

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-puerto-rico-incident.3544399/

 

[bookerG]

Too bad Hoyce didn't get his ass kicked in the first UFC. They would've put Hickson in the second one and MMA would've been vastly more exciting for the next five years.

 

[Coconutwater]

This series 'The Day...' is about 'extraordinary' moments in NHB/Vale Tudo history.

Today: [American NHB Scene]


Credentials...when you need´em...

View attachment 600789


View attachment 600805



His record should be reassessed. Period.

https://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Royce-Gracie-19

View attachment 600779

Spoiler: Dont tell it to...

Helson, tho...

View attachment 600807

Spoiler: 'THE DAY...' Theads

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-death-master-stormed-into-the-vale-tudo-scene-24.3882431/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...enio-tadeu-climb-back-in-the-ring-34.3933271/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...ly-really-intimate-with-the-pedro-30.3905323/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...d-to-face-2-opponents-in-the-ring-33.3924541/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-nilson-de-castro-chuteboxe-kept-flyin´outside-the-ring-32.3913987/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-teeth-kept-flyin´-ivc-31.3907739/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-machida-got-inspired-by-marcelo-tigre´s-drink-29.3901939/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-bjj-jorge-pereira-fearing-a-riot-27.3894033/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-the-hold-at-the-end-of-the-round-28.3896733/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...ary-side-of-the-russian-nhb-scene-35.3853211/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-yamasaki-got-inspired-to-become-a-ref-26.3885363/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...ck-b4-coning-mayweather-this-week-25.3863593/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-nobody-knew-if-sauer-had-tapped-or-not-23.3886109/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-takeo-yano-george-gracie-both-went-lights-out-22.3881991/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-drago-felt-happy-wand-wasnt-cornerin´-the-other-side-21.3873849/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-tank-inspired-coleman-20.3879835/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-little-volk-forgot-to-grapple-in-rings-19.3878575/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-want-usuta-to-tap-against-wallid-18.3877671/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-leg-lock-master-met-manos-de-piedra-36.3876141/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-coleman-went-full-roid-rage-in-brazil-17.3874387/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-saad-muhammad-promised-a-ko-against-tamura-16.3875713/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...k-hands-then-gave-ilyukhin-a-hand-15.3864713/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-kurmanov-the-boxer-submitted-ahmedov-the-jj-14.3874565/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-oleg-forgot-about-the-special-rule-13.3853539/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-sergei-akinin-launched-a-new-mma-gear-12.3872407/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-henzo-had-to-make-alvarenga-tap-several-times-11.3871109/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-amar-suloev-mightymoused-oganov-10.3871769/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-couture-got-played-by-ilyukhin-9.3866571/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-yvel-bit-barkalaev-volk-han-slapped-the-ref-8.3863115/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-tamura-forgot-to-shake-hands-with-yamamoto-7.3863509/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-marco-huas-went-full-babalu-toquinho-6.3852863/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-paulson-got-kimo-ed-badly-5.3831975/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-paulson-had-to-tap-with-his-foot-on-ronin´s-head-4.3830825/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-rei-zulu-machida-ed-sergio-batarelli-3.3828423/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-igor-showed-his-genuine-side-2.3821765/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-pelé-settled-the-score-in-the-ring-1.3812249/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-the-doc-had-to-check-the-cut-during-the-gnp-36.3941549/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...capoeira-nation-against-chuteboxe-37.3949335/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-sakakibara-asked-chuteboxe-to-kill-saku-38.3955161/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-yuji-shimada-daisuke-noguchi-did-ken-dirty-39.3961513/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-saku-crossed-paths-with-beat-takeshi-kitano-40.3730649/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-ufc-1-was-really-born-41.3964531/

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-enson-inoue-desgraced-himself-against-rei-zulu.3878069/

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-puerto-rico-incident.3544399/

Hilarious, I like the “World Light Heavyweight” addition, it made him sound so legit since he wasn’t claiming the heavy weight or open since it would go against Rickson’s accomplishments.

Too bad Hoyce didn't get his ass kicked in the first UFC. They would've put Hickson in the second one and MMA would've been vastly more exciting for the next five years.

Even though Rickson can tap Royce with one hand tucked into his belt (literally), I think the taller, less aggressive Royce matched better with the taller, heavier early UFC opponents. Rickson would have been more reckless and furthermore, I think Royce had better takedowns in general.

 

[KarateStylist]

old news.

 

[gono btw]

old news.

And who said these threads were about...news?

 

[KarateStylist]

And who said these threads were about...news?

Who said these threads were about what I was posting about?

 

[gono btw]

Hilarious, I like the “World Light Heavyweight” addition, it made him sound so legit since he wasn’t claiming the heavy weight or open since it would go against Rickson’s accomplishments.



Even though Rickson can tap Royce with one hand tucked into his belt (literally), I think the taller, less aggressive Royce matched better with the taller, heavier early UFC opponents. Rickson would have been more reckless and furthermore, I think Royce had better takedowns in general.

Hoyler was probably the World...WW Champ...

 

[Coconutwater]

Hoyler was probably the World...WW Champ...

LOL, they'd probably say that if he was in the octagon instead of Royce.

That said, UFC I was 1993 and Royler didn't compete in a World's tournament until 96? Dude won that like 4x, his competition history is ridiculous. But of course, everyone knows Royler's rich competition history. Despite him being a sore-loser, he's one of the most game people in jiu-jitsu, truly fearless.

 

[gono btw]

Who said these threads were about what I was posting about?

Pretty simple... These threads are about revisitin´& reassessin´the past. Nuthin´new.

Ya´ll get used to it.

 

[JacJeanFinger]

Royce's weight corresponds to shooto's light heavy weight division. Shooto was the only professional promotion as well as the highest authority in MMA.

We don't know how many dojo matches he had in Rio or Torrance prior to UFC. If he had put down zero experience, his victory should have made him and Gracie jiujitsu look even more miraculous. All his opponents had tons of competition experience and battle tested skill.

 

[gono btw]

Royce's weight corresponds to shooto's light heavy weight division. Shooto was the only professional promotion as well as the highest authority in MMA.

We don't know how many dojo matches he had in Rio or Torrance prior to UFC. If he had put down zero experience, his victory should have made him and Gracie jiujitsu look even more miraculous. All his opponents had tons of competition experience and battle tested skill.

Actually, Horion provided a doc. from a BJJ organization [Federação de JJ do Estado de Rio de Janeiro] in Brazil that claimed Royce was their World LHW Champ, with a record of 132-1 as an amateur, & 14- 0 as a Pro.

 

[JacJeanFinger]

I know what they had to do in their media campaign to promote Gracie jiujitsu as they were battling with ignorant people in the American market and dirty entrepreneurs.

Rorion even invited his uncle Carlson to talk show and infomercial where the old man unknowingly confirmed that Rorion was an undefeated champion in Brazil. Rorion didn't use an interpreter and told Carlson to "say yes" so he would get a check.

They did all the tricks as a marketing strategy because you can't win without lying in American business world. (Tell me a single honest man who succeeded in America after the wright brothers? )

But did they ever lie to you or me? No they didn't. They were royal to their students and supporters and they were true to the art and true to the warrior's spirit.

Cesar turned in his resume for the shamrock fight that also listed 14-0 record. He is a man of honor and he wouldn't do this to deceive us of course, but for the sake of publicity. I remember him writing that "my actual record is 0-1 because my girlfriend kicked my ass" when skepticism arose.

Gracie family members with a few exceptions, are modern day samurai whose chivelous souls are intact in our dirty self destructive human life. They don't give a shit at what PEOPLE think or say. What matters to them is how they protect their family art from being abused and misguiding the populate.

Actually, Horion provided a doc. from a BJJ organization [Federação de JJ do Estado de Rio de Janeiro] in Brazil that claimed Royce was their World LHW Champ, with a record of 132-1 as an amateur, & 14- 0 as a Pro.

 

[gono btw]

I know what they had to do in their media campaign to promote Gracie jiujitsu as they were battling with ignorant people in the American market and dirty entrepreneurs.

Rorion even invited his uncle Carlson to talk show and infomercial where the old man unknowingly confirmed that Rorion was an undefeated champion in Brazil. Rorion didn't use an interpreter and told Carlson to "say yes" so he would get a check.

They did all the tricks as a marketing strategy because you can't win without lying in American business world. (Tell me a single honest man who succeeded in America after the wright brothers? )

But did they ever lie to you or me? No they didn't. They were royal to their students and supporters and they were true to the art and true to the warrior's spirit.

Cesar turned in his resume for the shamrock fight that also listed 14-0 record. He is a man of honor and he wouldn't do this to deceive us of course, but for the sake of publicity. I remember him writing that "my actual record is 0-1 because my girlfriend kicked my ass" when skepticism arose.

Gracie family members with a few exceptions, are modern day samurai whose chivelous souls are intact in our dirty self destructive human life. They don't give a shit at what PEOPLE think or say. What matters to them is how they protect their family art from being abused and misguiding the populate.

Spoiler: Carlson - Interview

O'Tatame magazine (Brazil)

This interview took place soon after UFC 15, at the end of 1997.

Q:
And Rorion? How is your relationship with him nowadays?

CARLSON:
The problem with him is that he trademarked the name "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" in the U.S. but he's not going to keep me from using "Carlson Gracie". Like I said, I want nothing to do with "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu". I am "Carlson Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" . Nowadays, the "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" is old. They say that strength doesn't count, but it does. Maybe it wouldn't make a difference if the opponent didn't know anything. If the opponent knows something, then the strength starts to count. Carlson Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is a combination. It's endurance, technique, etc. I'm not going to have a student of mine who's 90Kg (198Lbs) fight someone who weighs 130Kg (286Lbs) and is very good also. They're lost, they've stopped in time and space. Along with my students, I've evolved the Jiu-Jitsu even further. They call themselves the best, but they don't prove it. In the U.S., they don't enter their students into any outside competitions. Let me tell you a little story about Rorion. Every day Rorion used to come to me and ask me if I knew how to speak English, and I would say no, I didn't know how at all, and he would keep asking me and Rillion every day. Then he invited us to do a television interview with him. He was sitting in the middle, and Rillion & I were on either side. I couldn't understand a thing. All I understood him saying was "Rillion Gracie and Carlson Gracie" once in a while, and pointing at us. OK, one month goes by, and I was here in Brazil when a friend of mine called me to say: "Carlson, I saw the interview with you, Rorion and Rillion in the U.S., he only told lies." "You don't know any English, do you?" "He only said bullshit, and you were practically agreeing with him." "He would talk and turn to the sides saying that you and Rillion were there to confirm it." Then I went to my friend's house, for him to translate exactly what was said. Then I found out that Rorion said that he was a national champion for 20 years and had never lost and that he had invented the Gracie diet. He even said that my dad was just a fucking assistant of his and that it was Helio Gracie who brought Jiu-Jitsu to Brazil. Lies over lies! When I found out, I was so mad!

 

[LEWIS540]

132-1?

Lol at a Gracie admitting a loss.

 

[Hotora86]

132-1?

Lol at a Gracie admitting a loss.

My thoughts exactly!
Did he lose to a Sambo guy as well?

 

[gono btw]

Too bad Hoyce didn't get his ass kicked in the first UFC. They would've put Hickson in the second one and MMA would've been vastly more exciting for the next five years.

Dat 1M$ purse tho...

 

[gono btw]

Royce's weight corresponds to shooto's light heavy weight division. Shooto was the only professional promotion as well as the highest authority in MMA.

We don't know how many dojo matches he had in Rio or Torrance prior to UFC. If he had put down zero experience, his victory should have made him and Gracie jiujitsu look even more miraculous. All his opponents had tons of competition experience and battle tested skill.

On a side note, assessin´ the legit knowledge them Gracies (or the whole Brazilian Vale Tudo scene) had about the Japanese scene prior to UFC 1 would be definitely interestin´...

Carlson had some knowledge about it since Ivan Gomes joined Inoki there in the 1970s (and even challenged Gotch, to no avail...)... but how deep was it?