The cost of college

She got a "Dean Scholarship" for $45k/yr (the Presidential Scholarship would have been $48k/yr). Then they gave her a few smaller grants/scholarships due to various factors. $5k Theater Scholarship because she has done theater tech work (sound and lights) for years - $3k Music Scholarship because she's played the violin (13 years) and viola (4 years). $500/yr because she toured the school prior to applying (i.e. showed interest in the college way before actually getting accepted). Those scholarships (Theater, Music, etc.) are given to try to convince students to choose that school, and even if they don't join the theater or orchestra/band, they still get the money as a way to say that the college also values the same interests as the student. She got smallish ($1k-$3k music scholarships from pretty much every college she applied to - even though she's not going to major in music nor possibly even be involved in orchestra/band.

Drake University, private university that costs roughly $50k/yr, offered her their largest academic scholarship ("Presidential Scholarship") but at only $21k/yr it wasn't enough to make that school a serious contender. Not when she got into her #1 choice and more money (as outlined in my previous post). Hell, she got into a private college close to home that costs $56k/yr and they gave her so much scholarship money she actually would've ended up pocketing money if she'd chosen to go there.

Some of the keys to her getting offered so much money:
- While she's not a 4.0 student (3.65ish) she makes up for that with all the AP classes she's taken, her great writing ability (application/essay/etc.), her drive, and her wealth of activities (community adult and children's theater work (for which she was hired and paid), mock trial captain, school theater work (some of which she was paid for when the school theater was rented out to other organizations/events outside of the school district), orchestra (section leader for years), etc.
- Getting into colleges is somewhat a crap shoot. Most of the schools she applied to have very low acceptance rates (i.e. <30%, the college she's going to is <20%). So just because you meet the criteria for acceptance, doesn't mean you'll get in. Really good colleges get far more qualified applications than they can accept, so she applied to 12 schools (way more than her guidance counselor suggested). The thinking was: 3 schools were public/lower cost schools as "backups". 6 schools were her desired choices, which happened to all be private, expensive schools (some Ivy and/or on par with Ivy league schools). 3 schools were stretch complete longshot schools that she almost certainly wasn't going to go to (and because of her GPA would be borderline to get accepted) but wanted to see if she could get in and what the financial packages looked like. With so many schools now using the Common App, applying to a bunch of schools isn't that much additional work. She also started the application process late summer before her senior year, so that when the application window opened, she was already to submit (she basically applied to 6 schools the first week, then the other 6 over the next 3 weeks - as time allowed). By getting to "roll the dice" 12 times, the likelihood of her getting accepted to school(s) she wanted were increased. I have a friend who's daughter applied to only 2 schools. She didn't get into the selective one (she met the criteria but didn't roll lucky) and therefore has no choice but to go to the other one.
- Students need to be honest with themselves and where they're applying. Some of the schools that she got into have average student GPA/Test Scores significantly lower than hers, which means that they really wanted to get her to come there (thus raising their averages and making the college look better). Other schools have averages closer to her scores and some of those didn't offer her quite as much money. Also, while it didn't help my daughter, we do know of some students that received extra scholarships because the colleges they applied to were trying to grow the departments that those kids wanted to major in (i.e. one school gave out an extra $5k/yr scholarship to any student that wanted to pursue a Psychology major, since the college was looking to grow that department).

FWIW my daughter had the following stats:
3.65 GPA
34 ACT (taken as a sophomore and since that was high enough to qualify for any college, she decided to not take it as a junior to see if she could improve it). On a related note, all my kids have taken the ACT and SAT tests starting as early as 7th grade. By taking it 3-4 times before it "counts" it's allowed them to become less stressed about it. To watch their scores improve year after year, and to learn how to manage the allotted test time. Both my kids saw their ACT scores go up 3-4 points from 7th to 8th grade just because they didn't have time to finish the tests in 7th grade, but in 8th grade they knew better how to manage the time and thus were able to finish the tests.
School Activities: Theater (tech), Orchestra (Section Leader), Mock Trial (Captain), LGBTQ Club, Key Club (went to a couple boring meetings but it was enough to be able to list it on the college apps).
Outside of School: Theater (tech) for both the Community Children's Theater and the cities Adult Theater Programs, Part time employment (12-15 hours per week).
What she lacked: Volunteerism. She did do 1 children's play a year for free (they have a very limited budget) but that's her only volunteering. She didn't participate in any athletics, but that never seemed an issue since she was involved in other group activities. Her GPA was also lower than ideal for the colleges she applied to, but a rough 10th grade was somewhat offset by the fact she improved in 11th and 12th grades.

She's thinking she wants to be a trial lawyer (she loves Mock Trial and public speaking). Nobody in our family is in law, but she somehow is really drawn to it. I could see her doing something along the lines of corporate communications or International Relations, but she's leaning towards wanting to do criminal law, specifically a prosecutor. She shadowed an Assistant District Attorney for a day and LOVED it, so she'd like to pursue that. However, in order to support her parents I'd like to see her in the private sector where the pay is better. Lately with all the talks we've had around the Supreme Court, she says she could see herself some day sitting behind a bench.

My younger daughter is arguably smarter, will definitely end up with a perfect ACT score (she got a 33 in 9th grade), has a 4.0 (it'd be higher if her school weighted grades), plays 4 instruments, competes in Latin Quiz bowls (and does really well), acts in school theater, etc. However, she wants to be a high school teacher (Latin, Music, or English) so even though she'll likely get a free ride to go to a lot of schools, there's no sense racking up college debt to become a teacher. If it was up to me I'd like to see her teach at the college level, not high school. But at this point she's adamant that she doesn't want to teach elementary school or college, just 9-12 graders.

You're a hardcore responsible parent. If you added corporal punishment, you'd be asian.
 
Yes it is.


I came out of school with no debt.
I've had a job since I was 9.

Lazy fucking kids.



Having said that, prices for education are out of control. Education and healthcare shouldn't be highly profitable businesses. The entire system is perverted.
 
Can you not read? Or did you just want to rant? Likely both.
My initial argument was based on what I said earlier. It's very clear but you're sadly lacking in basic reading analysis skills, so then you twisted it into something else. Stick to the initial topic or kindly don't debate.
Sorry, you're accusing him of ranting? He just educated you, after completely dismantling your arguments in a way that proved very satisfying to read.
 
I know people that have done it.

My brother went to school for commercial aviation. Out of pocket he paid around 30k, mostly for flight hours/private license from working at a car wash. He still has 90-100k worth of student loans but by working a job there is no reason you shouldn't be able to pay off a decent amount of that 10-12k per year.
But pating that much per year offsets being able to save and start a family. Which is bad

We're just subsidizing the terrible professors and all the the administration who basically do nothing. My college, the administration was worthless, yet it still cost us big
I went to CC and worked FT. I graduated after 6 years and did 51 credits in a year to finish college . Was pointless but I got my degree and I didn't go in debt
 
Its pays for it self once you get that job at a world class museum with that Art Degree.
 
It’s a racket the mob would be proud of, get a loan so colleges get fast money, graduate but cannot get a job because they don’t have two years worth of experience and so they work in Starbucks and macdonalds. What a great government and it’s been this way for decades. If Trump wants to win a second term just sort this shit out and he will be golden
 
But pating that much per year offsets being able to save and start a family. Which is bad

We're just subsidizing the terrible professors and all the the administration who basically do nothing. My college, the administration was worthless, yet it still cost us big
I went to CC and worked FT. I graduated after 6 years and did 51 credits in a year to finish college . Was pointless but I got my degree and I didn't go in debt

I agree that college is outrageously expensive but if you are smart about it and work, you can come out of it without insurmountable debt(depending on the degree). These kids that go out of state for the "experience" and get some bullshit degree with little or poor future prospects. I have zero sympathy for those types.
 
1. Part of the problem is with college kids themselves. High school kids are generally too ignorant, lazy, and/or distracted to actually consider the scholarship options or think about their long-term future. Imagine if they stopped partying with their friends on the weekends and instead locked themselves in their rooms to fill out scholarship applications? We'd be having a very different discussion right now.

2. Pick a major that has a large volume of good jobs at the end of it. Yes, that biology degree can get you into med school, but very few make it. What about then? What's Plan B? Of course, liberal arts degrees get shit on a lot here, and they deserve it. Most of them don't actually qualify you to do anything in the field.

3. Think outside the box. Stuff like ROTC scholarships are awesome. The best example is a doctor, honestly. The military will pay for your undergrad, pay you a salary while in med school (look up the O-1 pay-grades online), and then, you're a doctor. While your friends are getting paid a waiter's salary as an intern and resident, you're making significantly more money as an O-3. Also, you're not paying for malpractice insurance because the military covers that for you. Then, by the time your buddies are going into their fellowship and actually getting good paychecks, your commitment is up, and you can get out and start making regular doctor money alongside them. You're 6 steps ahead of them, and you're golden at this point.

4. Work during school. Get a job, a paid internship, or something that is going to fast track you in your career. That way, you aren't starting off with an entry level job. You're starting at Step 2, and you've made a little money to cut down on those student loans. The guys that I went to school with who did this are often several steps ahead of their peers who didn't. Success breeds success, and these guys get tagged as fast-trackers, so they accelerate quicker than their peers who didn't take that first step. Hell, a few guys that I went to school with are in their early 30's, and one is an executive at a 1,400-person company while the other is a VP at a 600-person company. Each of them are making north of $200k/year.

5. Consider the value of what you're doing. College isn't a consumption good that you use for 4 years to party and "find yourself." It's not designed to be an insurance policy against slipping through the cracks in society, only getting crappy jobs that pay minimum wage. It's an investment good, so treat it as such. If you aren't getting the skills or social network to make yourself successful, you're wasting money. Do something else.
 
Idk... I stayed in community college for as long as possible, and then transferred up. In state tuition helped, but still took a while to pay off loans. I say just get the degree you want, but not necessarily from where you want. The colleges don't all cost the same. But nobody ever gave a shit where I got my degree. I got it, I interviewed well, and I showed what I could do.
 
The major problem is that the cost keeps increasing while the benefit does not increase at the same rate. In many areas, the benefit is actually decreasing. That's obviously a problem.
 
Its because of all the government aid that the cost of going to college has sky rocketed.
 
The major problem is that the cost keeps increasing while the benefit does not increase at the same rate. In many areas, the benefit is actually decreasing. That's obviously a problem.
And no one can yet explain to me why the cost is continuing to skyrocket. I haven't heard a good explanation yet to why colleges cost more, and why they then turn around and need to keep asking for donations.
 
And no one can yet explain to me why the cost is continuing to skyrocket. I haven't heard a good explanation yet to why colleges cost more, and why they then turn around and need to keep asking for donations.

I actually worked for the fundraising side at my college. It was literally annual telephone calls. I raised over $100,000.00 myself from phone calls. It's basically a never-ending cycle. They keep upgrading the school to make it more attractive which costs more. The prestige angle was what was always played upon and all of upgrades they'd do with the money. Typically the big donors were the ones who did well and had a strong allegiance to the college or were very interested in the upgrades.

In my opinion, one of the biggest culprits to the increasing cost is the mindset of America - particularly my parents' generation. "You need to go to college and once you go, everything will be fine". So basically, they created this extremely high demand. The other side is the supply increased with all of the government funding. You have both supply and demand increasing, and you see the cost increasing drastically. The irony is that is exactly what's hurting the benefit. A degree doesn't mean much to me at all when hiring now. I'll hire someone without a degree if they have the work experience or can display really strong intelligence + ability to learn.
 
I can count on one hand the serious major regrets I had in life. One of them is paying way too much for college. Get the degree and get out.
 
I'm guessing that is the average for private and out of state tuition students at major universities and quite possibly include other cost of living. For example if you lived in California and went to a community college for 2 years and then to a California State University for 2 more years it would cost you about $20k (tuition and books/supplies) for 4 years or averaged out to about $5k per year. Not to mention the tax breaks you (or your parents) would be getting. If you can live at home for free during college, get any type of scholorships/grants and work part-time on the side you could come out of college debt free. Now of course if you went to somewhere like Harvard or Stanford you are talking $300k+ for an undergrad degree, which is quite ridiculous. If you think you're too good for a CSU college, then UC schools like UCLA, UC Berkeley, UC Davis, UCSF are at the top at certain programs in the nation and would be around $15k for tuition + books/supplies per year.
 
Don't go to college and start your own business. Don't be a lazy fuck.
 
The same way everyone else pays for capital which will produce returns into the future. Debt.

Except that, by international standards, education is not supposed to cost as much, nor you are supposed to get in thousands of dollars of debt in your teens.
 
I agree that college is outrageously expensive but if you are smart about it and work, you can come out of it without insurmountable debt(depending on the degree). These kids that go out of state for the "experience" and get some bullshit degree with little or poor future prospects. I have zero sympathy for those types.
True. Going out of state doesn't make sense. Especially now that it is incredibly expensive. Why do that to yourself?
 
im one course away form my masters degree and ill be walking out with no debt at all, or about 85k i cant remember which. eaither way, college is not so bad if u geta d egree that is in demand, like me.
 
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