The concept of "respect" in certain BJJ schools...

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Hatake88, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. Hatake88 Blue Belt

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    ...is really kind of ridiculous when you think about it. I'm not talking about the common sense definition of respect btw - obviously, you should try to be nice and courteous to everyone on and off the mats regardless of their race, gender etc.

    However, I've seen or heard people who have been mislabelled as "disrespectful" in BJJ schools for (and these are all real examples):
    • asking a higher belt (who hasn't got a partner yet) to roll;
    • asking to roll with their professor (who is already on the mat and have been rolling with other students);
    • forgetting to bow in and out when walking on/off the mats;
    • not facing the wall when retying their belt;
    • not giving right of way to a pair of higher belts when rolling - even when the two lower belts stayed in the same spot and it was the higher belts that were moving around;
    • refusing to be graded for a stripe after learning that each grading for a stripe cost $50;
    • getting angry at being locked out of more advanced classes not because the guy didn't have the skill (the coach even said he did) but because he hadn't paid for grading;
    • wanting to wear a new rank they got while training overseas on an extended vacation;
    • tapping someone out via wrist locks;
    • (my personal favourite) apparently its also disrespectful to tap your professor out or to hold him in a dominant position (in my friend's case, he was asked what point he was trying to prove and didn't he realise the professor "let" him get the back in the first place - my friend easily has 50lb on the professor and is a well seasoned brown belt).
    Does anyone have any more examples?

    Ultimately, I think a lot of coaches use the idea of "respect" to maintain their position as the alpha within the school and to earn money. By "respecting" these rules and customs, you end up disrespecting yourself. Agreed?
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  2. Os3y3ris Purple Belt

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    Its a cult that earns money from these activities.
     
  3. Hatake88 Blue Belt

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    that's true but things tend to be getting worse. for example, most schools in Sydney tend to be part of a chain and at least some of the things on the list would be seen as "disrespectful" at most of these afflicted schools.
     
  4. Os3y3ris Purple Belt

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    Things are certainly not getting worse. This has been happening since at least 2010. 2013 for damn sure. You were informed.
     
  5. Smato_rules Blue Belt

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    All good points; I may disagree a little bit on the getting out of the way of higher belts rolling, but am too getting tired of the childish shit that comes with training in the gi. Sometimes I feel like Dwight schrute with his karate classes in the office, but all it is doing is making me want to do no gi as all that bullshit goes out the window. Also the Luta Livre thread kind of inspired me too because it seems they don’t have as much of that culture
     
  6. Espurgote Blue Belt

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    • asking a higher belt (who hasn't got a partner yet) to roll;
    Never heard of this being disrespectfull...
    • asking to roll with their professor (who is already on the mat and have been rolling with other students);
    same as this
    • forgetting to bow in and out when walking on/off the mats;
    depends who ask
    • not facing the wall when retying their belt;
    Championship etiquete
    • not giving right of way to a pair of higher belts when rolling - even when the two lower belts stayed in the same spot and it was the higher belts that were moving around;
    Just Mat etiquete
    • refusing to be graded for a stripe after learning that each grading for a stripe cost $50;
    This is BS behaviour, Will you lose a limb to pay 50$?
    • getting angry at being locked out of more advanced classes not because the guy didn't have the skill (the coach even said he did) but because he hadn't paid for grading;
    wut?
    • wanting to wear a new rank they got while training overseas on an extended vacation;
    BJJ and belts is a sensitive topic
    • tapping someone out via wrist locks;
    Not disrespectfull at all
    • (my personal favourite) apparently its also disrespectful to tap your professor out or to hold him in a dominant position (in my friend's case, he was asked what point he was trying to prove and didn't he realise the professor "let" him get the back in the first place - my friend easily has 50lb on the professor and is a well seasoned brown belt).
    It is in fact disrespectfull to try "to kill" the teacher in a friendly roll, but in this particular case your teacher might be a bit sensitive.

    Some examples out of my head is chating while the teacher is showing position, refuse to train hard not because u are hurt but because you think you already know it all, use too much force and hurt people that is actually weaker and less tecnical, dirty and smelly gis, this kind of things.
     
  7. GoodbyeBlueSky82 White Belt

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    Most of that list is BS stuff IMO. That said:
    - Yielding to higher belts when rolling - someone has to yield, it might as well be the higher belt, easier to figure out quickly who needs to move. It's almost not even a hierarchy thing, even though it is on its face. Is there a better way?
    - Wanting to wear rank you received from someone other than your instructor (unless it was prior to coming to school and instructor approves) seems pretty gross or sleazy.
    - In general, don't be a dick when rolling with instructor. Our class has been told "match the upper belt's pace". I get that a brown or black belt should be able to hold their own regardless, but if they are letting you work, and you try and lock up a face choke the second you get their back, you aren't winning at anything other than being a dick. They are going to remember it, or potentially repay you with a super hard round if no one else does.

    The bowing in and facing away when tying your belt is holdover from Japanese roots. If an instructor wants to insist on it, that's their right, but I feel like its less and less common. Its not a bad thing though.

    The thing that would get you labeled disrespectful where I train is ego - bragging about tapping someone, talking over him during class or disagreeing with coach.
     
  8. esteven Blue Belt

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    Yes. The more experienced people should yield. They (should) have more mat awareness. Putting the onus on someone in their first month is just asking them to trip over you.
     
  9. yetanother Black Belt

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    I move out of their way when they don't notice me so it kind of evens out with them moving out of my way when they notice me.
    Also that gives me authority to stop them when they act super retarded and continue to fight when they fall into someone.
     
  10. tekkenfan Banned Banned

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    i feel theirs a major lack of respect in bjj today asking higher level guys isnt disrespectful but to try to shit on higher ranking guys when comes to technique try to go over them in arrogant ways is
     
  11. yetanother Black Belt

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    I don't respect the black belt teaching nogi classes at the school I am training at all.
    I don't attend those because they suck. He is a black belt but one belt higher but I am more technicall and would most likely beat him up in competition given the chance.
     
  12. tekkenfan Banned Banned

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    yeah but you live in a horrible country for bjj no offense
     
  13. yetanother Black Belt

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    We have a guy who took silver in the last pans and won the IBJJF no-gi worlds teach gi classes, not sure why he doesn't want to teach the no-gi class too and some dude that's 100x worse than him teaches it.
     
  14. lechien Gold Belt

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    That is a fantastic list and they do apply to most places unfortunately.

    The really sad one is about refusing to pay 50 dollars for the stripe.

    I know it sucks but are you just going to wait until your contract is over and then move to train somewhere else?

    Giving way to higher belts?
    I had similar policy in my gym but then one purple started to complain too much and my poor white belts had literally no where to roll as the higher belts were all over the mats. So I stop that silly rules .Now everyone is giving way to other.

    About asking the professor for a roll or beating him up.
    Lol.
    I am not a punching bag so you can test yourself.
    I can choose my sparring partner because I run the class.
    About loosing?
    That inevitable . You are bond to loose sometimes .
    No one really cares..
    My advanced students are all better than me and I love it.
     
  15. nefti Silver Belt

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    You cant have all the white belts running to senior betls and asking to spar every roll in class. Sadly is what ends up happening in class. Especially the over eager white belts who try to hog all the senior belts for rolls.

    If you are a white belt rolling with anyone above say a purple should be done onece in a while. Its like babysitting for us, we dont get a good workout, and it turns into a 5 min private. Which is fine after class but during class the seniotr belts need their rolls. Usually high blues/purples and above.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  16. nefti Silver Belt

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    When a white belt asks say a brown/black to roll with them this is the analogy:

    You cant add and subtract correctly and you want to do differential equations/linear algebra.

    Thats what it is. Other than to make you feel good about youself that you rolled with a high belt, both parties get minimal retuns from the time invested.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  17. killer Green Belt

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    Lower belts yield to upper belts where I train. With that said, I'm a brown belt who has no problem moving so I don't get kicked in the head or rolled over by an overzealous white belt.
     
  18. kenpeters8 Banned Banned

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    I still laugh when there's BJJ schools that doesn't know shit about heel hooks and refuse to learn it. And when you heel hook them, they'll throw a tantrum. I usually tell them don't go to an nogi open mat that allows it, stay your ass in your safe zone hiding behind a fucking pajama. LOL!
     
  19. NSchoke Green Belt

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    Wanting to wear a new rank they got on vacation must be a joke?

    If that shit flys in your place there's no standards for belts. Everyone will start getting promoted on the plane ride home from disney world.
     
  20. yetanother Black Belt

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    Not sure it's that easy to get belted when just visiting somewhere.
     

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