The COMPLETE Progression and Evolution of Leg locks in MMA/Bjj/Sub Grappling

I think the Estima Brothers have to be in there too, they came up with an attack nobody else had seen until Braulio tapped Lovato at ADCC '09 then Victor went and won Nogi Worlds in 2011 finishing every single match with the Estima Lock. It doesn't really fit in with the whole Ashi/Saddle heel hook game but i think they still need to be on the list as it was another milestone given its been used successfully at the highest level.
Nice. I do recall seeing Braulio pull off some kind of amazing spinning kneebar from bottom around this time. It was truly innovative stuff.
 
I know part of this was written as a joke but I have a question as to the Danaher leg lock timeline. According to Danaher on Joe Rogan Podcast he first became interested in leglocks when Dean Lister said, "why ignore 50% of the body" when Lister was training with Matt Serra for ADCCs. This would be around 2001. Did it take a dozen years to develop the system or was it really Eddie Cummings coming to train at Renzo's that finally solidified the game?
I had no idea Serra and Lister trained together. So far, based on what I have read/heard over the years, and based on what others are saying, it seems like there is a ton of crossover and overlap between the Japanese and American schools. Interestingly though, it seems the Russian/Soviet/Armenian system kinda developed independently. Do we know of any late 90s / early 2000s Americans or Japanese who spent time in the sambo/soviet scene?
 
Nice. I do recall seeing Braulio pull off some kind of amazing spinning kneebar from bottom around this time. It was truly innovative stuff.
The Spider Guard one he did a few years ago or an older one?

What about Ryan Hall too actually, i know 50/50 is a little out of favour now but didn't he go on a tear at purple heel-hooking people in competitions across the States back in the late 2000s when it wasn't a much used guard?
 
I had no idea Serra and Lister trained together. So far, based on what I have read/heard over the years, and based on what others are saying, it seems like there is a ton of crossover and overlap between the Japanese and American schools. Interestingly though, it seems the Russian/Soviet/Armenian system kinda developed independently. Do we know of any late 90s / early 2000s Americans or Japanese who spent time in the sambo/soviet scene?

According to Danaher Lister was brought into camp to train with Serra for ADCCs but it was not for long.
 
=
What about Ryan Hall too actually, i know 50/50 is a little out of favour now but didn't he go on a tear at purple heel-hooking people in competitions across the States back in the late 2000s when it wasn't a much used guard?

Ryan learned 50/50 from Lister. Ryan caused a lot of frustration to Cobrinha with 50/50 (and hurt his ankle with a heel hook from there according to Cobrinha).
It's possible he inspired the Atos guys to stall out Cobrinha with that.
 
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Don't forget the luta livre guys. Marco Ruas was very dangerous with heel hooks. Not refined by today's standards but very effective.
 
Don't forget the luta livre guys. Marco Ruas was very dangerous with heel hooks. Not refined by today's standards but very effective.
Totally forgot about that school of leg locks and grappling. I was actually just reading about luta livre recently bc that is how Darren Till wound up in Brazil. His coach was a Luta Livre guy. Which makes sense bc I remember Terry Etim also repped Luta Livre.
 
The Spider Guard one he did a few years ago or an older one?

What about Ryan Hall too actually, i know 50/50 is a little out of favour now but didn't he go on a tear at purple heel-hooking people in competitions across the States back in the late 2000s when it wasn't a much used guard?
Jeez I cant remember. It was in a gi I do remember that much.
 
Luya livre is basically catch without catch rules... both leglock systems are pretty much identical..
 
The easy answer is all of GFTeam and also Nova Uniao’s descendants.

For Nova Uniao the two founders have different lineage Dédé Pederneiras is from Carlos Gracie and Wendell Alexander is from the Fadda lineage.

But it's still a team who is heavy on the IBJJF ruleset. I did a 3 day seminar with Wendell Alexander last year and there was nothing about ashi garami or heel hooks. But he showed us a lot of quick knee bars that you can do from everywhere. It's also the same feed back I have from people who did the training camps, it's very strong on gi competition rules.

I'm lucky that my coach loves nogi and leglocks even if he's a NU blackbelt
 
I did imply in what I wrote that Danaher already had his own leglock system worked out. And to be honest I did a disservice to Daisuke Yamaji by omitting him. He was one of the great leglock innovators at Renzo’s before Danaher rose to prominence and whose influence is arguably equal in at least that regard.

As to whether Cummings’s arrival was what finally solidified the game... let’s just say that I don’t think it was a coincidence that it wasn’t until after his arrival that Renzo’s started killing everyone with heelhooks. I also know for a fact that Cummings was already doing heelhooks in the same essential way everyone does now (hunting outside ashi or the saddle, denying the rotational escapes, finishing with counterpressure on the knee, getting the wrist-bone bite on the heel) before he even met Danaher. I’ve seen videos. I have no doubt that Danaher had a lot of useful tips, techniques, and guidance due to his own research and much longer time training. I’m also sure that Cummings deserves a hell of a lot more credit than Gordon Ryan and Danaher seem to be giving him these days (none).

I don’t want to go any further because internet drama is lame and I don’t want to repeat things that aren’t mine to say.

Cummings is part of the aknowledgment on the DVD. You don't have to be the inventor of a technique to make a DVD about it, he organized the techniques, the explanations, the troubleshooting how tro present it and in what order... For me Danaher did all the job to make a wonderful DVD, who cares if the techniques were brought up by Cummings or not, the major part of the job was to present a complete, systemized and understandable Leglock DVD.

Also, it's Danaher that coaches the DDS, you guys really think that Cummings was with the Ryans and Tonon everyday, watching them rolling and correcting them.

Sometimes at my gym, the top guys are showing some new techniques to the coach, when the coach choose to show them to everyone in class, he will start by saying that it's from that guy. But after a couple of times or if he implement new follow up techniques, new entries... He will stop saying it's from that guy all the time.
 
For me Danaher did all the job to make a wonderful DVD, who cares if the techniques were brought up by Cummings .

I hate the way Danaher presents stuff, it's insanely long winded and with an extremely low density of information and details.
 
-Palhares bursts onto the scene

I know this was an abbreviated list, but Palhares is an unsung hero. Once he started finishing heel hooks with bridging, it replaced the old tech of vertical (or even horizontal, ughgh) finishes amongst the initiated. He also had a heelhook-centric game plan, which is what we see now in Nogi. He shook up ADCC. If he could've stopped ripping and tearing for just a damn minute, maybe he could've gone even higher.

What about Ryan Hall too actually, i know 50/50 is a little out of favour now but didn't he go on a tear at purple heel-hooking people in competitions across the States back in the late 2000s when it wasn't a much used guard?

Between his inversion abilities and ability to enter into 50/50, he was beating a lot of people, and they had no clue what was happening or why. I mean, if you think about it, it's crazy; he entered into a position that is of equal opportunity to both people, and kept on putting up consistent results. If that didn't show the overall low-level of understanding as to leg locks at the time (and positioning), I don't know what else would. I had hoped his entry into the MMA world would've been more fruitful, being a new Rousimar Palhares that didn't have the same trappings as, well, Rousimar Palhares. Alas, it didn't happen, and MMA will remain churlish and uneducated and never experience the true leglock enlightenment.

-Scott Sonnon starts teaching people about the saddle; no one listens

To be fair, he's the same guy who was doing this kind of shit. Why would you listen to him.


Also his system wasn't that hot. The entries were a hodgepodge of techniques that worked to varying degrees (from useful to no way in hell), and he had very little transitional work between positions. He showed options, but had no insight as to why one option was superior or inferior to the other. His saddle system is pretty much just him mapping the 4 configurations of the legs and how to hold that position in these configurations (though his descriptions are missing many of the important details present in today's day and age. Not necessarily his fault, but it's not like he has been teaching Eddie Cummings-level of knowledge on inside sankaku this whole time). He made a comprehensive collection of ideas/techniques/positions that existed at that time, which is noteworthy, but I don't think even if everyone had adopted his teachings it would've significantly pushed the game forward. On top of that, claiming to invent the saddle position (when it had existed and been practiced in Sambo for some time) soured a lot of people on him.

Cummings is part of the aknowledgment on the DVD. You don't have to be the inventor of a technique to make a DVD about it, he organized the techniques, the explanations, the troubleshooting how tro present it and in what order... For me Danaher did all the job to make a wonderful DVD, who cares if the techniques were brought up by Cummings or not, the major part of the job was to present a complete, systemized and understandable Leglock DVD.

Also, it's Danaher that coaches the DDS, you guys really think that Cummings was with the Ryans and Tonon everyday, watching them rolling and correcting them.

Sometimes at my gym, the top guys are showing some new techniques to the coach, when the coach choose to show them to everyone in class, he will start by saying that it's from that guy. But after a couple of times or if he implement new follow up techniques, new entries... He will stop saying it's from that guy all the time.

It's a valid point. We're in a world where the info is out in the wild, so it's not as important as who said it, so much as what is said.

However, in the future? I don't think you should keep a close eye for more groundbreaking leglock tech advancements from Danaher, whereas you probably should keep your eye on Eddie Cummings. Systematization of concepts, or being able to apply a concept logically throughout a system is one thing; creating concepts is another.
 
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I hate the way Danaher presents stuff, it's insanely long winded and with an extremely low density of information and details.

I watched every DVD back to back for the first time. It took me about 2 weeks and I kind of found him boring and as you say long winded. It's pretty much the first 3 DVDs where there is a lot of concepts. The control, the breaking...

But now I just go and watch particular techniques and it's very good material, it's well organized and succinct, especially the entries and the various options when you get the position. It's just very long when he explains the position and the concepts that he call the ''central problem''.
 
Cummings is part of the aknowledgment on the DVD. You don't have to be the inventor of a technique to make a DVD about it, he organized the techniques, the explanations, the troubleshooting how tro present it and in what order... For me Danaher did all the job to make a wonderful DVD, who cares if the techniques were brought up by Cummings or not, the major part of the job was to present a complete, systemized and understandable Leglock DVD.

Also, it's Danaher that coaches the DDS, you guys really think that Cummings was with the Ryans and Tonon everyday, watching them rolling and correcting them.

Sometimes at my gym, the top guys are showing some new techniques to the coach, when the coach choose to show them to everyone in class, he will start by saying that it's from that guy. But after a couple of times or if he implement new follow up techniques, new entries... He will stop saying it's from that guy all the time.
I was specifically referring to Gordon Ryan’s comments on social media lately. Maybe I shouldn’t hold JD responsible for what his student is saying. Good points regardless
 
I know this was an abbreviated list, but Palhares is an unsung hero. Once he started finishing heel hooks with bridging, it replaced the old tech of vertical (or even horizontal, ughgh) finishes amongst the initiated. He also had a heelhook-centric game plan, which is what we see now in Nogi. He shook up ADCC. If he could've stopped ripping and tearing for just a damn minute, maybe he could've gone even higher.



Between his inversion abilities and ability to enter into 50/50, he was beating a lot of people, and they had no clue what was happening or why. I mean, if you think about it, it's crazy; he entered into a position that is of equal opportunity to both people, and kept on putting up consistent results. If that didn't show the overall low-level of understanding as to leg locks at the time (and positioning), I don't know what else would. I had hoped his entry into the MMA world would've been more fruitful, being a new Rousimar Palhares that didn't have the same trappings as, well, Rousimar Palhares. Alas, it didn't happen, and MMA will remain churlish and uneducated and never experience the true leglock enlightenment.



To be fair, he's the same guy who was doing this kind of shit. Why would you listen to him.


Also his system wasn't that hot. The entries were a hodgepodge of techniques that worked to varying degrees (from useful to no way in hell), and he had very little transitional work between positions. He showed options, but had no insight as to why one option was superior or inferior to the other. His saddle system is pretty much just him mapping the 4 configurations of the legs and how to hold that position in these configurations (though his descriptions are missing many of the important details present in today's day and age. Not necessarily his fault, but it's not like he has been teaching Eddie Cummings-level of knowledge on inside sankaku this whole time). He made a comprehensive collection of ideas/techniques/positions that existed at that time, which is noteworthy, but I don't think even if everyone had adopted his teachings it would've significantly pushed the game forward. On top of that, claiming to invent the saddle position (when it had existed and been practiced in Sambo for some time) soured a lot of people on him.



It's a valid point. We're in a world where the info is out in the wild, so it's not as important as who said it, so much as what is said.

However, in the future? I don't think you should keep a close eye for more groundbreaking leglock tech advancements from Danaher, whereas you probably should keep your eye on Eddie Cummings. Systematization of concepts, or being able to apply a concept logically throughout a system is one thing; creating concepts is another.

I agree, Palhares did as much as anyone to bring leg attacks to the forefront. Due to his ridiculous tendency to injure guys and the popularity of the UFC he brought a lot of attention to this aspect of grappling. So going back to my original post, what is the complete list as far as importance?
 
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