The "butcher"

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armtriangle

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aka the "bundle" aka the "bundle of elbows"


Use it. The butcher equals instant armbar ownage.

Sorry for you non- wrestlers, I could not find a video or pictures of it. I wrote a verbal description, but then realized it made no sense, and is impossible to explain the end position (though it is really easy to actually do). It is a defense off a sprawl in wrestling, an attacj from top of quarter in bjj. The end result is side control with both arms trapped, in a bundle of elbows.

I have never seen this taught by any bjj guy, so there must be some flaw in it.


Anyone familiar with this? Anyone else have similar armbar domination with it? Am I missing something or did the butcher just become my go to attack from top front of quarter?
 
Most of the arm control material from wrestling seems to have limited application in BJJ, because submission grappling guys keep their arms incomparably tighter.

I'd be interested to see it, but I've never seen much utility in most of the wrestling arm manipulations.
 
I am going to *try to find a vid. It is not really an arm manipulation, it is more of a block on the far arm, then a deep grip on the lay (a cross face to teh far arm, other hand goes under the the far lat). It has worked for me (I only tried it yesterday), because the break down action stems from the rotation around the head (sort of like a clock choke, where the goal is to pry them over), and not really the chop on the arm.

Once you break the base, you just keep the grip on the arms... your own grip at this point is sort of upside down, like you were reaching for a darce. Liek I said, inexplicible... i need pictures
 
Are you talking about the 3/4 nelson, where you keep the arm behind the head and spin around for the armbar on the far side? If so, that is an ace move.
 
i love this move - i used it in 80% of my high school wrestling matches with high sucess. I use it in bjj frequently and recently showed it to my old gym when i was visiting back home (i am just a blue belt but the teacher there is a purple and when i visit he always wants me to show him something since i train at a large school)

to try and textually describe the butcher i would say its the following:

guy shoots in and you sprawl

you take a standard crossface and pull his arm in tight

take your other arm under his chest and grab the same tricep

with both arms colapse his one arm in

while keeping a good sprawl circle towards the trapped arm until he is flattened out

keep circling and he will end up on his back and you will have both arms twisted

in bjj this is where you transition to an armbar in wrestling this is where you get the pin
 
I think I am starting to get the idea, is it basically like there arms are how they put people in coffins, both arms across their chest while you put pressure to hold them that way???? If not may need a little more explanation!
 
when you complete the move and they are on their back their elbows should both be touching each other right in front of their chin and likely touching their chin
 
Is this also referred to as "barbed wire" or is that a different move?
 
Ok I think I am starting to get the picture. Please post a vid if someone finds it.
 
It is definately not a 3/4 nelson. It may be called a "barbed wire" but I have never heard it called that. But wrestling moves are like bjj moves, different people call the same moves difefrent things. It is essentially a deep cross face and far lat grip (underneath)... the trick is the finish though, not the initial set up.

I just got back from morning class where I played with it again with pretty good success.

I am having no success finding a video or picture of it though (damned pro wrestler named "the butcher" screwing up search results), which is surprising because it is a BASIC fundamental wrestling move, that every high school wrestler knows.
 
armtriangle said:
It is definately not a 3/4 nelson. It may be called a "barbed wire" but I have never heard it called that. But wrestling moves are like bjj moves, different people call the same moves difefrent things. It is essentially a deep cross face and far lat grip (underneath)... the trick is the finish though, not the initial set up.

I just got back from morning class where I played with it again with pretty good success.

I am having no success finding a video or picture of it though (damned pro wrestler named "the butcher" screwing up search results), which is surprising because it is a BASIC fundamental wrestling move, that every high school wrestler knows.
Click to expand...

Thats funny bc I tried google searching it to and every picture was WWF, and I even tried like 5-6 different combinations.
 
My search has indicated that it is indeed also called the "barbed wire" and possibly the "corkscrew"

Unfortunately "barbed wire" and "wrestling techniques" returned even poorer results than "butcher" . You can imagine...
 
^ no. Its more basic than most of those moves. It is junior high stuff.

Honestly, its a shitty wrestling move, it is hard to get to work on decent competition. But it works against non-wrestlers, and has the benefit of tying the arms up fro armbars.
 
armtriangle said:
My search has indicated that it is indeed also called the "barbed wire" and possibly the "corkscrew"

Unfortunately "barbed wire" and "wrestling techniques" returned even poorer results than "butcher" . You can imagine...
Click to expand...

I lol'ed. Thanks.
 
This is one reason I like Judo. People bitch about learning Japanese names, but if I tell you the name of the move, you know what Im talking about. In wrestling, you tell someone who goes to another school 20 minutes away from yours and they have no idea what your talking about.
 
Someone just film themselves doing the move on their brother/mother/sister/uncle :P The vid may not be on the net, but you can supply one!
 
armtriangle said:
It is definately not a 3/4 nelson. It may be called a "barbed wire" but I have never heard it called that. But wrestling moves are like bjj moves, different people call the same moves difefrent things. It is essentially a deep cross face and far lat grip (underneath)... the trick is the finish though, not the initial set up.

I just got back from morning class where I played with it again with pretty good success.

I am having no success finding a video or picture of it though (damned pro wrestler named "the butcher" screwing up search results), which is surprising because it is a BASIC fundamental wrestling move, that every high school wrestler knows.
Click to expand...

Hmmm. Far lat grip; what do you mean exactly by a far lat grip? You've definitely got my attention.
 
^^ There are no pictures. I guess I might make a picture of video tutorial and it can be mt contribution to the online grappling world.

Image you are sprawled out off a shot. Your right arm cross faces and grips the far tricep. Your left hand would go under (behind the arm) all the way to his opposite lat with just a cup grip (some versions grab the far tricep with that hand- giving you 2 hands on the far arm).

Walk toward the head, taking away the far arm post, and compromising his base. (In wrestling, the guy is pushing back into the whole time, in bjj a lot of guys just flop over and attempts to get guard here). Keeping your right hand on the tricep, walk around to the opposite side, putting the bottom man on his bank (it is a pinning combo in wrestling). Once you feel him tipping over to his back, take teh hand off the lat and corral the other arm at the tricep. The end result is you are in side control, your right hand has his left arm at the tricep(though your thumb is down, ontup like if your were rotate to a far armbar) your left hand has his right arm at the tricep, and your chest is pinning his right arm across his body, and his arms are crossed.

It is a helpless position. And not hard to get into. That is why I am wondering why I have not seen in used in submission grappling or bjj, even though it is a very common wrestling move.
 
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