The Best BJJ Vid I've Ever Seen

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Zankou, Dec 31, 2012.

  1. Zankou

    Zankou Bringing peace and love Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    It remains this one.

    [YT]irevNkyxYBA[/YT]

    The single most fundamental move in BJJ, and yet it is virtually ALWAYS taught completely wrong. Every single warmup includes everybody doing tons of hip escapes, all done wrong. It boggles my mind. I've never even seen anybody else teach this correctly. I'm not even sure most black belts understand, at a conceptual level, what they are actually doing when they hip escape in a high pressure situation. So they teach it wrong, differently than what they are doing.

    I remember seeing this video and forgetting about it. Then I spent about 6 months working on my escapes a lot, constantly tweaking and tinkering. At the end, I realized I was doing exactly what Owen explains from the start here.

    Btw, it really sucks that this is on Submissions 101, but what can you do.
     
  2. primaxopt

    primaxopt Yellow Belt

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    Really interesting. Can you elaborate on what makes this more effective? Maybe some examples of when it's been used in action, or when it's used as part of a side control escape drill?
     
  3. trustdoesntrust

    trustdoesntrust Purple Belt

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    I had the same issue. I used to do shrimping drills diligently for my first year and a half of jits until a different instructor showed me, to my amazement, that I was doing it all wrong. In addition to what the video says, I also hadn't realized that the angle and placement of your foot can determine which direction you will shrimp. During drills you are typically taught to shrimp so that you shoot up and down the mat in the quickest amount of time, but when you're in side control this approach will only get you more stuck because you're shrimping right into the control point.

    The more I train, the more I see little yet vital details like this being the difference between good and great. People marvel at Roger Gracie's mount control, for instance, but it's not such a wonder when you consider the subtle vital things he does that most people shortcut away.
     
  4. Zankou

    Zankou Bringing peace and love Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    The reason it's so effective is that the shrimp is not a quick gimmick wiggle on your back, as people treat it. It is a dominating, driving force that your opponent cannot stop unless he has already locked your hips or upper body down. In essence you are getting to a turtle position, and from that position either reguarding, inverting, or moving in for a takedown.

    In order to do this, you have to achieve a neutral or defensive block on your opponent's upper body, get as much of a turtle type position as you can with hips, and then use that power to escape. As long as your upper body can turn in towards the guy, and you do the shrimp correctly, he can't stop it.

    The reason this gets taught wrong, in my opinion, is because in practice your opponent is doing everything he can to try to smash you on your back, and so it will rarely look like the 100% form that Owen shows. Instead you will look "flatter." But the mechanics are the same, and particularly the key details of driving off your toes while rotating on your shoulder into a quasi-turtle position.

    One of the biggest problems I see is that people drive straight up with their near-side leg. But that is just helping your opponent drive you flat. You need to be pulling that leg under you, driving INTO your opponent as you effectively hip heist away.
     
  5. trustdoesntrust

    trustdoesntrust Purple Belt

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    Not sure this covers it, but to my interpretation it's because the basic function of shrimping is to create hip space, rather than just to move your hips a certain distance. This technique balances your body kinesthetically so that your strength is concentrated at the point where you are trying to create the space. Notice the relationship between the shoulder on the mat and the opposite foot that is on the mat. It would require an incredible amount of strength to collapse your hips at that moment and put you on your back. But if you simply push your hips down the mat as in he incorrect way then not only are you not creating as much space but your opponent can simply follow you and keep you pinned.
     
  6. selfcritical

    selfcritical Brown Belt

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    Ryan Hall's explanation of this on the Deep Half set is worth the price of admission alone.
     
  7. DPS831

    DPS831 Purple Belt

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    Nice video. Stuff like this makes me wonder how many other basic techniques are taught wrong. I recently bought the Ryan Hall triangle series and he says the move is pretty much taught wrong across the board (regarding arm across, and the necessary angle).
     
  8. primaxopt

    primaxopt Yellow Belt

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    This stuff is great! I want to make sure I develop good habits instead of spend 10 years literally doing the wrong basic movement.
     
  9. notafighter86

    notafighter86 Blue Belt

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    Interesting, I've certainly seen shrimping shown in many different ways. But I also think its very situational, that there are indifferent ways to shrimp, and each better depending on circumstance.

    I real problem is the shrimping drill is often viewed as a race down the mat warmup.
     
  10. Oliver Geddes

    Oliver Geddes Amateur Fighter

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    What I tend to do to make people work on proper shrimping is make people do single leg snaking. Three off the outside leg one side in a row, change legs, three off that leg, and repeat.

    My (awful sound quality) take on similar (slightly more specific) principles:



    Maybe useful, maybe not. But hey. Figured I'd throw it out there. ^_^

    I will experiment with Keith's more explosive version and see if it works better. Although honestly I'm increasingly favoring forcing north south to escape from side control rather than escaping traditional side control. But that's a separate issue. Will try. Thanks for the link.
     
  11. Zankou

    Zankou Bringing peace and love Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Useful vid Oli. The main part to convey is driving off that far foot straight into your opponent as your hip comes out. That requires floating the near foot while bringing the far foot up HIGH and pushing off your toes (not from the sole of your feet, which forces your foot down much further). I like to walk my far foot up, keeping the top of the foot completely straight with my shin, until my toes are right next to the butt. The shrimping power is huge from there, you can't be flattened, and you can move as you like. Shrimping with big power is the key, and yet people are taught to shrimp like they are flopping on their ass.

    I can see why you would teach it with the free leg floating, because like I say the main problem is I see people pushing up off that free leg, rather than rotating and pushing off the far leg. The other problem is that people don't get their far leg toes planted nearly far up enough, your toes should be pushing off almost in a straight line with your opponent's body.

    In fact the free leg can be used as a "guard" in this position, going across the opponent's midsection, driving from turtle, or inverting into an attack. Once you get the hang of it, and block the crossfacing arm, this position can in fact be used just like a guard, with a variety of attacks. I like to play it against lower belts for fun and practice.

    I'd love to hear your thoughts on forcing north/south, as I usually find it more of a pain to escape from north/south than from regular side control.
     
  12. segfault

    segfault Orange Belt

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    Check out Kid Peligro's Great Escapes app for some details, this is how he (and Rickson) teach it.
     
  13. Oliver Geddes

    Oliver Geddes Amateur Fighter

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    To add on to what happens next, once the leg comes across the belly if they don't circle away, you can replace guard. If they do start moving towards your head to avoid the guard replacement, you can turn to your knees for a single on the hipside leg, and can even use the blocking leg to kick him off and make a little more space. I find that much more efficient than the traditional 'turn to your knees for a massive double leg' approach.

    The north south thing is trying to get the head underneath and walk out whilst t-rexing/bear pawing their arms. Kind of turns into the squirrel lock if it comes up, but if not you can still turn in from the single as you would from the traditional escape.

    The finish here is different, but the intro is the same:



    A quick thing is that I find that if the foot is too close to your butt, I find it can kind of limit your power because you're a little too cramped, and this goes double for white belts or newer guys who are very inflexible.

    Also of note is that a lot of people step out, snake, but they don't adjust the outside foot out before the snaking movement is over. This means that they snake, make space, but they catch up with their own foot. This takes away their angle and the force so they end up flat, so follow up snakes are basically starting from scratch. So you have to make it clear that the foot remains outside your body the whole time to give you something to drive off and prevent them putting you flat on your back. Hence you have to step the foot out to a new point before you finish the snaking movement. Etc. etc.

    Poor english explanation, but I think you know what I mean.
     
  14. Spoonman7

    Spoonman7 Red Belt

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    Good details but every person is going to teach it a little differently than the hext guy, and the same exact method will not work for everyone. But Keith is legit so no criticism from me. He knows his stuff well.
     
  15. bjjaz

    bjjaz Got the Rock...Time to Roll

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    Caio taught shrimping this way at a seminar a while back as part of a side control escape to guard series and it changed the way I forever shrimp. So glad I learned that early in my BJJ career.
     
  16. Zankou

    Zankou Bringing peace and love Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Wow, that's not what I expected by north/south, I really don't like to let the guy get tight on me like that ... I use that trapping the far arm to reverse triangle sequence, but usually only as the guy is passing and I can't get anything better.

    I have been doing a lot of inversion attacks from north/south transition, it's one of my favorite things to do nowadays ... get wrist control, let go entirely with no guard and invert right into a kimura or leg attack. In other words, as the guy passes to north/south you are going right into the inversion. As long as you block the guy's near wrist low and don't let them control your far leg, this is a fantastic "noguard" attack sequence. I often let guys "spin" me into the pass from butterfly, and roll right into the inversion. Never really seen this shown, wish I had a vid, I'd show it. The other thing I'll do is simply block the near arm and whip entirely around in a circle to get a side angle ... either inverted over the top or whipping completely around.

    The whipping around is kind of like this, but not in a half guard, and with more space.

    [YT]KQo03y2prxY[/YT]
     
  17. xMikeyX

    xMikeyX Purple Belt

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    It's amazing what your hips can do when you're not fully erect with a giant money boner from ripping off white belts. Keith must have filmed this when he wasn't busy filming all the techniques on aesopian.com and selling them as his favorite moves.

    Great technique though and he knows how to shrimp!
     
  18. KGB256

    KGB256 Purple Belt

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    I think this is a combination of experienced guys taking the details for granted (because it's so basic), and inexperienced guys not wanting to fall behind in the drill.

    The few times I've been allowed to lead drills for the beginners class, I show the shrimp in detail and remind people that it's more important to do it correctly than to do it fast. People tend to treat those kinds of drills like a race, and it's usually to their own detriment.
     
  19. flyingnecklock

    flyingnecklock Brown Belt

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    Thanks for posting, its one of my weakest areas.
     
  20. Darkslide632

    Darkslide632 Brown Belt

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    First, I've never seen anyone shrimp anything like the way he was suggesting at the beginning of the video unless there was someone correcting them. I've certainly never seen any black belts teaching it that way. Second, I find it interesting that shrimping is apparently almost always taught "wrong" at countless schools all over the world, but you apparently know the "right" way to do it, while all of these black belts are just incompetent. Third, this is how I shrimp. This is how the vast majority of people I've ever trained with shrimp... so it's all kind of moot.
     

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