The American Left will once again become anti-military after Obama leaves

[HamPhan]

The main instigator in all of these conflicts were anti-government rebels fighting against politician suppression. Obama encouraged them, but he didn't instigate any of these conflicts. If you think he did, I'd sure like to hear your argument.

Obama funded and armed Yemeni rebels before their Civil War started. Obama funded and armed Libyan fanatics as well. Check Wikileaks for your information. Obama's Admin provided intelligence to Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood and other " secular " activists by proxy with USAID, NED and other organizations( CIA )Obama's Admin funded and trained fanatics in Syria, and still is.

Keep your head in the sand man.

 

[jimbob27]

Obama funded and armed Yemeni rebels before their Civil War started. Obama funded and armed Libyan fanatics as well. Check Wikileaks for your information. Obama's Admin provided intelligence to Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood and other " secular " activists by proxy with USAID, NED and other organizations( CIA )Obama's Admin funded and trained fanatics in Syria, and still is.

Keep your head in the sand man.

Funding and aiding rebels =/= instigating a war.

If you truly believe this, why weren't you out protesting? It's just just the left that are allowed to protest against things they don't like.

 

[HamPhan]

Funding and aiding rebels =/= instigating a war.

If you truly believe this, why weren't you out protesting? It's just just the left that are allowed to protest against things they don't like.

You're either an imbecile or an ideologue.

 

[Diamond Jim]

The instability that was created by the vacuum left by the Obama admin and NATO partners fired the flames of unrest in the Middle East and Africa.
Again, it's not just about American deaths, like I spoke about in the OP. It's about the hypocritical Left and the ideological fanatics that can't see the wrong of one Administration while blasting other Administrations. Again, millions of displaced civilians, hundreds of thousands of deaths and chaos on 3 continents.

Do you think the world is in a better place since Obama took office and the talks of regime changes in " tyrannical " countries in favor of " secular " arabs/muslims sprouted?

Hypocrite or fanatical ideologue, pick your poison.

I know you hate the man, but you're giving him too much credit. The instability wasn't created by Obama. It was created by decade of dictatorships brutalizing its people and those people rose up, largely with the help of the internet.

He did make mistakes, like Bush, in thinking these revolts would identify with western ideals.

 

[sub_thug]

Funding and aiding rebels =/= instigating a war.

If you truly believe this, why weren't you out protesting? It's just just the left that are allowed to protest against things they don't like.

Do you not believe that the influx of American money and weapons into Libya, a place where a power vacuum was created after we helped dispose of Gaddafi's dictatorship, were contributing factors in the Libyan Civil War?

 

[HamPhan]

I know you hate the man, but you're giving him too much credit. The instability wasn't created by Obama. It was created by decade of dictatorships brutalizing its people and those people rose up, largely with the help of the internet.

He did make mistakes, like Bush, in thinking these revolts would identify with western ideals.

He made mistakes by arming, training and funding AlQaida, ISIS, Al-Nusra and other FSA members, Libyan jihadists. How the fuck did he think that by funding these entities that I just named, would translate into western ideals?

 

[Gandhi]

The other side of the coin is the right wrapping themselves in the stand behind president who can do no wrong in FP, only when their guy is in power. When a democrat is in he is a pussy and neocon hypocrite at the same time.

I would prefer to try an objective assessment.

 

[HamPhan]

The other side of the coin is the right wrapping themselves in the stand behind president who can do no wrong in FP, only when their guy is in power. When a democrat is in he is a pussy and neocon hypocrite at the same time.

I would prefer to try an objective assessment.

Ideologues, doesn't matter which side of the spectrum they are on, are pathetic sheep. Agreed.

 

[jimbob27]

You're either an imbecile or an ideologue.

And back to insults.

Ok. Lets make things reaaaally simple for you.

The second Iraq war was directly instigated by America (and my country). There were lots of protests.

None of the arab spring conflicts were directly instigated by America, hence the lack of protests.

I'm not denying western governments were involved, but there's a big different between being involved and instigating. Are you unable to see the difference?

 

[sub_thug]

I know you hate the man, but you're giving him too much credit. The instability wasn't created by Obama. It was created by decade of dictatorships brutalizing its people and those people rose up, largely with the help of the internet.

He did make mistakes, like Bush, in thinking these revolts would identify with western ideals.

Foreign powers, both Eastern and Western, were involved in those revolts, helping them succeed. It wasn't just a bunch of home-grown stuff. By helping them, I believe those in power thought that the rebels would see us as new friends. They were mistaken.

 

[Big_Chief_Stove]

So I guess nobody wants to debate then?

I'll leave you guys to your paranoid circle jerk. Have fun!

Lol what's there to debate?

 

[HamPhan]

And back to insults.

Ok. Lets make things reaaaally simple for you.

The second Iraq war was directly instigated by America (and my country). There were lots of protests.

None of the arab spring conflicts were directly instigated by America, hence the lack of protests.

I'm not denying western governments were involved, but there's a big different between being involved and instigating. Are you unable to see the difference?

How would the Arab Spring Conflicts have gone without arms, training and funding by the Obama Admin?
That's not instigation? Telling Mubarak he had to step down, telling Assad he had to step down, telling Qaddafi to step down and then arming the " rebels " or jihadists to take down those that didn't step down isn't instigating?

Seriously my friend, I think you're too much of an ideologue to have a rational discussion when it comes to this topic.

 

[sub_thug]

How would the Arab Spring Conflicts have gone without arms, training and funding by the Obama Admin?
That's not instigation? Telling Mubarak he had to step down, telling Assad he had to step down, telling Qaddafi to step down and then arming the " rebels " or jihadists to take down those that didn't step down isn't instigating?

Seriously my friend, I think you're too much of an ideologue to have a rational discussion when it comes to this topic.

His definition of "instigating" seems to equate to "firing the first shots." Very narrow interpretation of the word. @Diamond Jim seems like he's open to having reasonable discussion.

 

[HamPhan]

Definition of instigate

1. transitive verb
2. to goad or urge forward : provoke

Definition of provoke

1. transitive verb
2. 1 a archaic : to arouse to a feeling or action b : to incite to anger
   
   
3. 2 a : to call forth (as a feeling or action) : evoke <provoke laughter>
   
4. b : to stir up purposely <provoke a fight>
   

Definition of goad

something that urges or stimulates into action : spur


Definition of spur

a goad to action

 

[SiKnSiN]

France was definitely the main instigator in Libya. The French were secretly organizing, training, and arming Libyan rebels before anyone. France and their Arab partners were making Libya happen with or without the US.

Never heard of Obama arming the Houthis either. Will definitely have to look into that. Not sure what we would even gain from that. The Houthis hate us and we were supporting the Yemen President (Saudi puppet).

 

[jimbob27]

How would the Arab Spring Conflicts have gone without arms, training and funding by the Obama Admin?
That's not instigation? Telling Mubarak he had to step down, telling Assad he had to step down, telling Qaddafi to step down and then arming the " rebels " or jihadists to take down those that didn't step down isn't instigating?

Seriously my friend, I think you're too much of an ideologue to have a rational discussion when it comes to this topic.

The US has been doing exactly what you just described in Korea for decades. Arming the South and telling the leaders of the North they need to step down. Are they instigating a war there?

The Syrian war was instigated by protests, and then the military defection of Assad trained generals who then formed the FSA. The west have supplied some weaponry and training, but the vast majority of what you see being used by the rebels is of Soviet/Russian origin. Middle Easterns have been kicking the shit out of each other based on religious and tribal differences for over 1000 years before America even existed, but suddenly now it's all Obama's fault...... right?

Most people don't see it your way, hence the lack of protests.

 

[sub_thug]

Do you not believe that the influx of American money and weapons into Libya, a place where a power vacuum was created after we helped dispose of Gaddafi's dictatorship, were contributing factors in the Libyan Civil War?

Definition of instigate

1. transitive verb
2. to goad or urge forward : provoke

Definition of provoke

1. 
   
   
   • transitive verb
   • 1 a archaic : to arouse to a feeling or action b : to incite to anger
   • 2 a : to call forth (as a feeling or action) : evoke <provoke laughter>
   • b : to stir up purposely <provoke a fight>

Definition of goad

something that urges or stimulates into action : spur


Definition of spur

a goad to action

You're kind of proving my point. My first post, quoted above for you, would certainly suggest a provocation towards civil war. We didn't exchange bullets in the same way that we did in Iraq, but creating a power vacuum and supplying arms/money doesn't sound like provoking to you? In fact, I think these are exactly the sorts of things that my country (USA) should be doing less of. I think we also shouldn't have gone into Iraq (I say this to prove my consistency on the matter).

 

[HamPhan]

The US has been doing exactly what you just described in Korea for decades. Arming the South and telling the leaders of the North they need to step down. Are they instigating a war there?

The Syrian war was instigated by protests, and then the military defection of Assad trained generals who then formed the FSA. The west have supplied some weaponry and training, but the vast majority of what you see being used by the rebels is of Soviet/Russian origin. Middle Easterns have been kicking the shit out of each other based on religious and tribal differences for over 1000 years before America even existed, but suddenly now it's all Obama's fault...... right?

Most people don't see it your way, hence the lack of protests.

I never said it was all Obama's fault. I'm saying that the leftist hypocrites don't seem to recognize the messes he's fostered and instigated across 3 continents.
Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of countries that are also responsible for the destabilization we see throughout the ME, Africa and Europe. But, again, where are all the leftist organizations that used to protest wars because of innocent civilian lives being lost due to American interference?
My OP is merely predicting how the left will become anti-war again, after Obama leaves office.

Time will tell, I'll bump this thread in a year or so...

 

[HamPhan]

You're kind of proving my point. My first post, quoted above for you, would certainly suggest a provocation towards civil war. We didn't exchange bullets in the same way that we did in Iraq, but creating a power vacuum and supplying arms/money doesn't sound like provoking to you? In fact, I think these are exactly the sorts of things that my country (USA) should be doing less of. I think we also shouldn't have gone into Iraq (I say this to prove my consistency on the matter).

Ummm, I think we're on the same page here. It was definitely provocation and instigating.

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Example as to why has already been shown in the thread. Unless there are American/other Western nations "boots on the ground" people won't care en masse, because it's not going to get as much play in the media/it's not as cool to say you're anti covert-ops or anti drone strikes or what have you.