The 9th Republican Presidential Debate 2016 by CBS News/Wall Street Journal [Feb 13] [9PM EST]

[Jack V Savage]

You mean the notion is?

No, I mean that whatever the merits of the economic argument, that is clearly not what is driving anti-Mexican sentiment. It's just an after-the-fact rationalization.

You can't dismiss an entire policy though with credible means because you think it could potentially create racism.

I don't know what this means.

I know you won't want to concede to some of this but part of the stall on immigration has been on the democratic side too.

That phrasing already indicates that you think that whatever you say is indisputable fact. But in this case, if you're suggesting that anti-immigration sentiment exists among Democrats, too, I don't disagree.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

.. no one on that stage would do that .. they'd smile like a bitch and try to 'save face' from the booing .. actually cruz did it .. calling out the 'donors' .. and guess why he did it ? because trump had done it a few minutes earlier and he did it in the last debate .. mirroring the alpha

Like Donald did at first. lol. Face it, he's rich and used to getting his way, but he isn't alpha.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

Again, I don't think that's happened to nearly the extent that you guys do. Actual Republican voters aren't far right on economic issues. It's just that they don't vote based on economic issues.

I think there's plenty of indicators that they do care about economic issues.

This is where you get the "Get the government's hands off my Medicare!" and Joe the Plumber phenomena. The virulent hate among poor whites towards Obamacare as well. You get that one dude that was forced to pay more than he was before and half a million people latch on to his story and scream against the tyrant Obama.

It's just that the GOP has been absolutely brilliant at associating progressive taxation and increased social services with harm towards the white working class. The issues that affect GE and Goldman Sachs and Exxon are the issues that affect Jeff the gas station mechanic.

Just yesterday I was reading the comments on this video-



Pretty telling how many people saw this as a motivation to vote Trump. One guy is like "Fuck Mexico, I'm going for Trump!" and got a ton of likes.

Since Trump is the most belligerent towards Mexican immigrants, he won't let things like this happen. So "Mexico" means Jose the immigrant janitor, Antonio the Carrier executive living in Monterrey, Jimmy the 3rd-generation Mexican American living in Chicago. It doesn't matter, Trump is "for" the US and against Mexico so he'll tell all of them to fuck off and "make [white] America great again"

The mish-mash of nativism/racism and economic conservatism really is brilliant.

 

[Lead]

The thing I hate the most about the WR are the people who enters random threads for the sole purpose of saying some random shit about The Republicans, or The Democrats, or cops.

My block list is full of them, actually. It helps me see the good posts without the useless posters obstructing the view.

Yea, there are a lot of drive bys that contribute nothing while thinking they are.

 

[Lead]

No, I mean that whatever the merits of the economic argument, that is clearly not what is driving anti-Mexican sentiment. It's just an after-the-fact rationalization.

I think for most it is the reverse

I don't know what this means.

We can't have a debate shut down for the fear a sensible policy creates sometype of anti-anything sentiment. I mentioned the refugee sentiment. It is perfectly rational to have concern about national security in bringing a large amount of people over. The idea of saying we can't move forward on that policy because it would send a message to our citizens and the world that we someone don't like Muslims or Arab people because we didn't take refugees in shouldn't be valid.

That phrasing already indicates that you think that whatever you say is indisputable fact. But in this case, if you're suggesting that anti-immigration sentiment exists among Democrats, too, I don't disagree.

With the number of conversations we've had in the past, you of all people should know I don't think that Jack

 

[Selukrid612]

I think there's obviously some truth to what Jack is saying, if you're a racially-conscious white person you're in all likelihood going to gravitate towards the Republican side. And if you think in those terms it's natural for that to extend to issues such as universal healthcare and welfare, which many people may view as a sort of extension of AA, if you will. I don't think it's the majority of the Republican Party, but without a doubt it's a significant part of the electorate. The opposite is also true though, if you're a radical black activist that wants to destroy white America, you're voting Democrat. If you're a racist Mexican American that wants to realize a new-age Reconquista, you're going to vote Democrat. The Republicans are by no means the only party that have ignorant racists amongst it's supporters. And that's not even to say that everyone that is voting along cultural lines is ignorant, I don't believe that all. But it'd be foolish to deny that it's happening.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I think for most it is the reverse

Well, I guess we're stuck there.

We can't have a debate shut down for the fear a sensible policy creates sometype of anti-anything sentiment.

Sure. I never said anything like that.

The idea of saying we can't move forward on that policy because it would send a message to our citizens and the world that we someone don't like Muslims or Arab people because we didn't take refugees in shouldn't be valid.

We're talking about politics now. If the discussion is whether mass deportations or something is good policy, we can have that discussion. My point was just that "hard times" are not driving Trump and Cruz support. It's cultural resentment.

With the number of conversations we've had in the past, you of all people should know I don't think that Jack

Which is why I pointed it out to you the way I did.

 

[Lead]

Well, I guess we're stuck there.



Sure. I never said anything like that.



We're talking about politics now. If the discussion is whether mass deportations or something is good policy, we can have that discussion. My point was just that "hard times" are not driving Trump and Cruz support. It's cultural resentment.



Which is why I pointed it out to you the way I did.

I truly still don't understand the trump support but it does make me sometimes think to your views of groups clinging to identity cause his ideology just doesn't match up. I've been trying to pin down reasons for it and can't so I won't really go against your say in it. I'm truly baffled at this point with trump.

I shouldnt have assumed that stance with you on immigration. I just thought you would've placed the blame all on the GOP if you thought they were the party with underlying racist views. It was my mistake.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I truly still don't understand the trump support but it does make me sometimes think to your views of groups clinging to identity cause his ideology just doesn't match up. I've been trying to pin down reasons for it and can't so I won't really go against your say in it. I'm truly baffled at this point with trump.

I shouldnt have assumed that stance with you on immigration. I just thought you would've placed the blame all on the GOP if you thought they were the party with underlying racist views. It was my mistake.

No problem at all. Not anything to dwell on.

I quoted this in another thread, but I think it goes a long way toward explaining Trump's support (and to backing up my point):

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2016/02/trump-clinton-still-have-big-sc-leads.html

Among the beliefs of [Trump's] supporters:

-70% think the Confederate flag should still be flying over the State Capital, to only 20% who agree with it being taken down. In fact 38% of Trump voters say they wish the South had won the Civil War to only 24% glad the North won and 38% who aren't sure. Overall just 36% of Republican primary voters in the state are glad the North emerged victorious to 30% for the South, but Trump's the only one whose supporters actually wish the South had won.

-By an 80/9 spread, Trump voters support his proposed ban on Muslims entering the United States. In fact 31% would support a ban on homosexuals entering the United States as well, something no more than 17% of anyone else's voters think is a good idea. ... Only 44% of Trump voters think the practice of Islam should even be legal at all in the United States, to 33% who think it should be illegal.

These are not primarily reflecting economic concerns.

 

[Selukrid612]

There are some new polls out in SC and one of them has Bush tied with Carson at 7%. If he finishes in single digits or barely breaks 10% I think we'll see him start to get pressured to drop out. He's simply not a viable candidate, SC was supposed to be friendly territory for him. I think this could be it for him and that Kasich could be persuaded to follow with promises of being Rubio's running mate. I just can't see Rubio dropping out first while he's still polling ahead of Bush, Kasich AND Clinton.

 

[Lead]

There are some new polls out in SC and one of them has Bush tied with Carson at 7%. If he finishes in single digits or barely breaks 10% I think we'll see him start to get pressured to drop out. He's simply not a viable candidate, SC was supposed to be friendly territory for him. I think this could be it for him and that Kasich could be persuaded to follow with promises of being Rubio's running mate. I just can't see Rubio dropping out first while he's still polling ahead of Bush, Kasich AND Clinton.

His campaign played up SC the most of the first four states too. Bringing in his Brother and the money in ads for this first media type primary and coming close with Carson would be a huge blow. His polling for Super Tuesday isn't looking great either.

 

[Lead]

No problem at all. Not anything to dwell on.

I quoted this in another thread, but I think it goes a long way toward explaining Trump's support (and to backing up my point):

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2016/02/trump-clinton-still-have-big-sc-leads.html



These are not primarily reflecting economic concerns.

Those numbers are disgusting.

 

[Tol]

I truly still don't understand the trump support... I'm truly baffled at this point with trump.

Same here. It's not isolated to one state or region either. Part of it is the name recognition. He also reeks of low information voter support. And then he has the 'not a politician' thing going for him. A true witches brew of anti-political correctness and populism that only the devil could have concocted. I just can't see him being competitive at all against Hillary or Bernie as RCP shows. It would be a waste of a pendulum swing if he won the nomination, because he's a shoe-in to lose the general in my opinion. I might even consider voting against him out of spite, only if he runs against the Bern. If it's Hillary and Trump, I'm writing someone's name in.

 

[Selukrid612]

His campaign played up SC the most of the first four states too. Bringing in his Brother and the money in ads for this first media type primary and coming close with Carson would be a huge blow. His polling for Super Tuesday isn't looking great either.

I mentioned earlier in this thread that Bush is the only Republican to have a net unfavorable rating amongst Republicans/Republican-leaning independents. The reality is he hasn't been a viable candidate for some time. It is blatantly obvious that Rubio is the only legitimate alternative to Trump and he would be a great GE candidate. The party has to coalesce around him and soon or else the Donald will run away with this thing. Trump is the second choice of most of Cruz's supporters, even if Cruz stays in many may jump ship if they think a vote for Cruz is a vote for Rubio. It just doesn't seem likely that an establishment candidate is going to come roaring back if they continue to damage each other while Trump assumes an air of inevitability. If Trump dominates in SC it might already be too late.

 

[Arkain2K]

Cruz tops GOP field for first time in new national poll
Thu February 18, 2016

​

Ted Cruz has inched ahead of Donald Trump in a new national poll released Wednesday, the first national poll of the 2016 cycle that shows the Texas senator on top of the Republican field.

Cruz has the backing of 28% of Republican voters nationwide, unseating Trump, who won the support of 26% in the latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll.

But Cruz's 2-point edge is within the poll's margin of error, and it's not clear if the survey captures real movement in the race or is simply an outlier.

Florida Sen. Marco Rubio comes in third with 17% support, followed by Ohio Gov. John Kasich at 11%, Ben Carson at 10% and former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush in last place with 4%.

The results are a major change from last month's NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll, when Trump held a 13-point lead over Cruz, 33% to 20%.

But Trump dismissed the new results, when asked about them Wednesday night during a town hall hosted by MSNBC.

"I have never done well in the Wall Street Journal poll. I think somebody at Wall Street Journal doesn't like me but I never do well with the Wall Street Journal poll," Trump said. "So I don't know. They do these small samples and I don't know exactly what it represents."

Cruz, however, crowed about his standing in the race Wednesday.

"The sound you're hearing is the sound of screams coming from Washington, D.C.," Cruz told supporters at a rally in Spartanburg, South Carolina, on Wednesday afternoon. "But what's happening nationally is indicative of the stakes in this race."

The latest survey was conducted by Republican pollster Bill McInturff and Democratic pollster Peter Hart after Saturday's GOP debate in South Carolina.


http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/17/politics/donald-trump-ted-cruz-poll-supreme-court/