Elections ***The 8th Democratic Debate play-by-play Thread*** New Hampshire

Who won the debate?


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    30
  • Poll closed .
No, you are not able to simply disagree with people like a man (and note that you're doing it again here, accusing me of "dishonesty" for making a true statement that you disagree with).
I disagree.
 
It's pretty crazy. Their whole reason for existing is to elect Democrats, and to the extent that some of the members of the group might oppose Bernie, it's because they fear he'll lose and cause down-ballot losses.

The problem here is that you can't simply disagree with people; you have to assume that everyone who doesn't profess the same views as you is some kind of nutty extremist. So (to advance it beyond the DNC, which is a fairly insignificant group here), it can't simply be "some prominent Democrats are concerned that Bernie's perceived extremism could be a liability in a general election, but I think they're mistake because X, Y, Z." It has to be "the evil Democrats hate Bernie and want to lose because of their evility. They're so evil!"

ehhh.

The Dem tent is a big tent undergoing some real identity challenges.

Similar to the test the Republican one was put to under Trump. It would not be extreme to believe some old guard Republicans would have preferred the party lose the last election, Trump be booted and the party return to what they saw as its roots.

I don't think is is extreme to say many under the Dem umbrella do not embrace the far left in their party and they can see that under a Bernie Presidency, the party will be pulled very far to the left, and you either go along or get primaried. Bernie has spoken about that type of pressure as the way he will get his agenda thru.

So its not so much they want the Republican's to win as much as they would want Bernie to lose, because a Trump like purge or exiting of the party of the old guard is likely to happen with a Bernie win.
 
Missed the debate because I had to catch up on sleep.

Not fond of Klobuchar or Biden, but props to them for not playing into Hillary's bullshit.

 
It's pretty crazy. Their whole reason for existing is to elect Democrats, and to the extent that some of the members of the group might oppose Bernie, it's because they fear he'll lose and cause down-ballot losses.


And yet none of those fears have ever been grounded in any kind of actual proof. But it doesn't stop them from continuing to push the same old tired narrative.

The problem here is that you can't simply disagree with people; you have to assume that everyone who doesn't profess the same views as you is some kind of nutty extremist. So (to advance it beyond the DNC, which is a fairly insignificant group here), it can't simply be "some prominent Democrats are concerned that Bernie's perceived extremism could be a liability in a general election, but I think they're mistake because X, Y, Z." It has to be "the evil Democrats hate Bernie and want to lose because of their evility. They're so evil!"

These Democrats would be MORE than fine if Donald Trump won the election in 2020. They would just consider it a punt. They get to keep legalized bribery the same as it ever was while also being able to continue fear mongering Democratic Socialism that will actually benefit Americans. They get the kill two birds with one stone. They also still get to benefit from Trump's tax code which fastens their pockets, and the pockets of those who continue to finance their campaigns.
 
No one should be unable to see how Bernie poses a threat to establish politicians on all sides of the aisle.

A Bernie presidency will push relentlessly to drive money out of politics and they will look to pressure and primary or beat anyone who disagrees. This is a 'cause' for him, tops amongst all causes.

And that means politicians who have become accustomed to that easy money would have to reshape their campaigns entirely around wide, broad bases made up of masses of citizens.

That is a certainly a huge fear for many of them (if not most) and will see the 'face of politicians' change massively over time, if Bernie is able to succeed in implementing that agenda.

And those who give the masses of money (the donors) will hate it and fight against it with all they got out of fear of losing their influence.


I am not putting any judgement on the above or saying what side is right or wrong. Just pointing out the divide is clear and that we should not pretend Bernie would simply get all the support from the establishment Dems (or whatever you want to call them) with a win.
 
The DNC are trying to rig 2020 for Donald Trump?

You've gone full fucking batshit. This is great.

The Dems and GOP are both corporate controlled parties. Why is it strange to think they would favor a corporatist in Trump over a socialist like Sanders?
 
The Dems and GOP are both corporate controlled parties. Why is it strange to think they would favor a corporatist in Trump over a socialist like Sanders?
The DNC doesn't favor Trump. You're fucking crazy. Take a deep breath.
 
These people are so dishonest, aren't they? How can anyone actually have faith in the liars?
 
The DNC doesn't favor Trump. You're fucking crazy. Take a deep breath.

Your don't think there are people who would have voted for Hillary who if pushed would choose Trump over Sanders?
 
I know the IDP extended the deadlines and the DNC called for one, but if they don't so be it. On the one hand what's done is done, on the other the amount of incompetence and errors in the Iowa caucus undermines faith in democracy. I think an independent review of the results might restore some of that, outside of what the campaigns want.

Given that the Caucas is an intra-party vote to choose a candidate I don’t think it reflect much on Democracy with a capital D but should this happen in a general election I would agree with you wholeheartedly.
 
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