The 50 Greatest PW's of All Time - Larry Matysik

[DM1982]

Have any of you real PW fans read this:





Matysik shoots on WWE's top 50 list from a few years ago, then gives his own with detailed accounts, with a detailed account of the criteria for entry, and why certain stars aren't in.


Here is WWE's list:

Spoiler

1 Shawn Michaels
2 The Undertaker
3 SCSA
4 Bret Hart
5 The Rock
6 Harley Race
7 Ricky Steamboat
8 Andre the Giant
9 Rey Mysterio
10 Rowdy Roddy Piper
11 Eddie Guerrero
12 HHH
13 Gorgeous George
14 Randy Savage
15 Curt Henning
16 John Cena
17 Ric Flair tie Dusty Rhodes
19 Edge
20 Jerry Lawler
21 Lou Thesz
22 Terry Funk
23 Hulk Hogan
24 Bruno Sammartino
25 Y2J
26 Ted DiBiase
27 Moolah
28 Classy Freddie Blassie
29 Randy Orton
30 Pat Patterson
31 Iron Sheik
32 Jimmy Snuka
33 Mick Foley
34 Kurt Angle
35 Buddy Rogers
36 Gorilla Monsoon
37 JYD
38 Superstar Billy Graham
39 Jake the Snake Roberts
40 Big Show
41 Jack Brisco
42 Sgt Slaughter
43 Kane
44 Nick Bockwinkel
45 Jeff Hardy
46 Dory Funk Jr
47 Bob Backlund
48 Ravishing Rick Rude
49 Batista
50 Killer Kawalski

Here is Matysik's list:

Spoiler

1 Lou Thesz
2 Ric Flair
3 Ed Strangler Lewis
4 Hulk Hogan
5 Bruno Sammartino
6 SCSA
7 Jim Londos
8 Buddy Rogers
9 Gene Kiniski
10 Frank Gotch
11 Verne Gagne
12 Harley Race
13 Terry Funk tie Dory Funk Jr
15 Shawn Michaels
16 Johnny Valentine
17 Wild Bill Longson
18 Nick Bockwinkel
19 Jack Brisco
20 The Rock
21 Bret Hart
22 Dick the Bruiser
23 Edouard Carpentier
24 Andre the Giant
25 Randy Savage
26 HHH
27 Killer Kowalski
28 Fritz Von Erich
29 Whipper Billy Watson
30 Joe Stecher
31 John Cena
32 Bruiser Brody
33 Kurt Angle
34 Danny Hodge
35 Bob Backlund
36 The Undertaker
37 Gorgeous George
38 Pat O'Connor
39 Ted DiBiase
40 Rowdy Roddy Piper
41 Ray Stevens
42 Classy Freddie Blassie
43 Ray Steele
44 Dusty Rhodes
45 Ricky Steamboat
46 Big Bill Miller
47 Superstar Billy Graham
48 Brock Lesnar
49 Stan Hansen
50 Randy Orton

Needless to say, hugely different, and yes WWE's list is ass, but did Matysik go too far with picking so many old school/originator wrestlers from bygone eras? And, even though it is a very well written book - he truly is a great authority on PW - his list for me almost lost integrity from the off when he lists RKO and Brock in the top 50; after all he talks about in relation to strict criteria and all-round greatness required to make the list. Especially in light of those he didn't include - Y2J, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Curt Henning, Jake Roberts, Rick Rude - all supposedly inferior to RKO and Lesnar (No fucking way). He does address all this, and otherwise it's an ace book.


Any thoughts?

 

[GSPSAKU]

It depends on what your criteria is. What are the criteria? Why is Jericho NOT ON THE LIST? Multiple time world champion, full time wrestler active wrestler and a 2nd tier star for 14 years and has been on-off for the past 10 years. How Ted DiBiase is ranked above or right below a guy like Jericho on both lists is beyond me. Anyhow, I take the WWE's list with a grain of salt anyhow.

Glad to see Ray Stevens on here since I consider him the precursor to the Hennigs and a lesser degree, Ziggler. How John Cena is not top 15 all time on either list is crazy considering he's been the #1 guy in the #1 promotion in the world for 10 years now. I'll have to come up with my own list sometime.

 

[My Spot]

WWE's list is ass because Hogan and Flair were in TNA at the time so of course Vince had to be Vince and let his ego get in the way.
I don't understand why Rock is only #20 the other one when Austin is #6.

 

[Pliny Pete]

I love Matysiks book about St Louis and his Brody book is pretty good but I aint interested in reading other peoples opinions in list form

Also theres prolly about 4 people in this whole sub-forum that actually know who Matysik is so I wouldnt expect much interest in his list

 

[My Spot]

I love Matysiks book about St Louis and his Brody book is pretty good but I aint interested in reading other peoples opinions in list form

Also theres prolly about 4 people in this whole sub-forum that actually know who Matysik is so I wouldnt expect much interest in his list

He must be some IWC neckbeard because Cena should be a lot higher considering he carried the sport for like a decade.

 

[GSPSAKU]

I love Matysiks book about St Louis and his Brody book is pretty good but I aint interested in reading other peoples opinions in list form

Also theres prolly about 4 people in this whole sub-forum that actually know who Matysik is so I wouldnt expect much interest in his list

I think 4 is generous lol. I have not read his 50's GOATS but I have two of his books and both were excellent; Wrestling at the Chase and Golden Era: St Louis Wrestling Record.

 

[deezy]

Lists are subjective.

Doesn't matter who you pick, it'll be wrong to anyone.

 

[flowwiththego]

As saku wrote, it depends on the criteria. It is skewed because of his association with St. Louis. It is also just a U.S. list.
For my money the 1 2 3 should be Rikidozan, Hulk and Santo and I wouldnt argue with any order. Under certain criteria Flair wold be my number one. Nice to see some names on the list.

 

[DM1982]

It depends on what your criteria is. What are the criteria? Why is Jericho NOT ON THE LIST? Multiple time world champion, full time wrestler active wrestler and a 2nd tier star for 14 years and has been on-off for the past 10 years. How Ted DiBiase is ranked above or right below a guy like Jericho on both lists is beyond me. Anyhow, I take the WWE's list with a grain of salt anyhow.

Glad to see Ray Stevens on here since I consider him the precursor to the Hennigs and a lesser degree, Ziggler. How John Cena is not top 15 all time on either list is crazy considering he's been the #1 guy in the #1 promotion in the world for 10 years now. I'll have to come up with my own list sometime.

As stated, he goes into detail as to why Jericho etc are not on list; and as I indicated, I also disagree, he certainly should be in there as opposed to Orton.

His criteria was all facets of being a pro wrestler; which again, is why it's puzzling Orton is in.

As for the Cena question, Matysik first considered not putting Cena in at all; but reconsidered and did so. Selling power alone is not enough to get you to top of his list - and you have to take into account whether Cena would be so effective in, for example, the pre-televised, shoot era. Things like that. I think his place is fair.

For all the questionable picks, Matysik delivers a meaty book that would take some rebuttal.

 

[DM1982]

WWE's list is ass because Hogan and Flair were in TNA at the time so of course Vince had to be Vince and let his ego get in the way.
I don't understand why Rock is only #20 the other one when Austin is #6.

Matysik shoots on WWE, McMahon and the list; basically saying WWE's list was pure marketing.


As for Rock; longevity is perhaps the key to his position; people above him dominated PW for many years longer than he did. And, were better workers.

 

[DM1982]

I love Matysiks book about St Louis and his Brody book is pretty good but I aint interested in reading other peoples opinions in list form

Also theres prolly about 4 people in this whole sub-forum that actually know who Matysik is so I wouldnt expect much interest in his list

No harm in trying it; he knows WAAAY more about PW than you do. But whatever I guess.

 

[DM1982]

Lists are subjective.

Doesn't matter who you pick, it'll be wrong to anyone.

He offers you a chance for rebuttal; just come 'heavily armed with facts and reason'. IMO, his list is the best until someone with more industry exsperience than him (he also worked with WWF/E), a greater depth of knowledge of entire history of PW, and tackles the subject as hard as he has done.

 

[DM1982]

He must be some IWC neckbeard because Cena should be a lot higher considering he carried the sport for like a decade.

You're an example of a clueless, modern PW fan; the history of PW pre-dates by eons what you have watched of PW and think only what's going on now is relevant to all-time lists. Cena is a clunky, unconvincing worker with decent athleticism, who has proved a massive $$$ maker; but that is not all the list is concerned with.

No Matysik is not a neckbeard; again, not to sound too pompous, but he has experienced more PW in first person than you will ever know.

 

[DM1982]

As saku wrote, it depends on the criteria. It is skewed because of his association with St. Louis. It is also just a U.S. list.
For my money the 1 2 3 should be Rikidozan, Hulk and Santo and I wouldnt argue with any order. Under certain criteria Flair wold be my number one. Nice to see some names on the list.

Yeah he stipulates that the entrants would have to be English speaking, originally; but he constantly cites Rikidozan in reference to great American guys that were big in Japan, also. And hey, he put Hulk really high, and a toss up between Thesz and Flair for one, so....

 

[Pliny Pete]

No harm in trying it; he knows WAAAY more about PW than you do. But whatever I guess.

You dont know what I know so how bout you eat a dick bitch

 

[My Spot]

As for Rock; longevity is perhaps the key to his position; people above him dominated PW for many years longer than he did. And, were better workers.

Then why is Austin so much higher when his time on top was limited like the Rock's? He certainly wasn't THAT much better of a worker on top either since it was after his neck injury.

 

[DM1982]

You dont know what I know so how bout you eat a dick bitch

I know you're an unhappy little man; based on this bitchmade response from you - so quick to the homosexual proclivities - very telling.

And yeah, I know Larry Matysik knows more about PW than you; you're a little turd who is 10,000 messages deep in 2 years on Sherdog - get a life.

 

[My Spot]

You're an example of a clueless, modern PW fan; the history of PW pre-dates by eons what you have watched of PW and think only what's going on now is relevant to all-time lists. Cena is a clunky, unconvincing worker with decent athleticism, who has proved a massive $$$ maker; but that is not all the list is concerned with.

No Matysik is not a neckbeard; again, not to sound too pompous, but he has experienced more PW in first person than you will ever know.

Okay, so he IS an IWC neckbeard.

 

[DM1982]

Then why is Austin so much higher when his time on top was limited like the Rock's? He certainly wasn't THAT much better of a worker on top either, since it was after his neck injury.

That's a good point; their careers go beyond WWE though, don't they? Austin had more diverse success in PW in general, I guess.

 

[My Spot]

That's a good point; their careers go beyond WWE though, don't they? Austin had more diverse success in PW in general, I guess.

He was nothing more than a midcarder in WCW though and had trouble drawing as a heel.