Economy The 400 wealthiest Americans last year paid a lower total tax rate than any other income group

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by PolishHeadlock2, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. cincymma79

    cincymma79 Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2013
    Messages:
    14,082
    Likes Received:
    11,222
    You’re counting capital gains in there
    Let me ask this instead, if the government had that money would it not still run at a deficit under every administration?


    From your link
    The data shows that, between 1950 and 1959, the top 1 percent of taxpayers paid an average of 42.0 percent of their income in federal, state, and local taxes. Since then, the average effective tax rate of the top 1 percent has declined slightly overall. In 2014, the top 1 percent of taxpayers paid an average tax rate of 36.4 percent
     
  2. AgonyandIrony

    AgonyandIrony Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    18,613
    Likes Received:
    15,474
    Location:
    NOLA
    I'm hella glad you guys are smarter than me.

    It's wild, us socialists who care about the greater good of society are painted as selfish and lazy while the dudes who think mister shits in gold toilets and eats well done steaks who his entire life has fucked over the working class cares about the blue collar.

    I may be dumb as fuck too, but at least I'm not fucking stupid enough to worship a traitorous compulsive lying rich dude.
     
    Crazy Diamond likes this.
  3. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    36,942
    Likes Received:
    36,883
    Yes, in 2014. We've since that had another massive tax cut, including a rate reduction. However, we've also eliminated a lot of the deductions that used to exist in the 1950s as well. So, if we returned to 1950's rates with the eliminated deductions, the effective tax rate would be higher. Higher starting place, less deduction and credit loopholes.

    End result = higher effective tax rate.
     
    Crazy Diamond likes this.
  4. cincymma79

    cincymma79 Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2013
    Messages:
    14,082
    Likes Received:
    11,222
    So if we changed how we taxed people it would change. WelI, guess we agree on that
     
  5. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    36,942
    Likes Received:
    36,883
    Honestly, you rarely make any sense with these responses. Someone said the effective rate would be higher. You disagreed. I pointed out why I think he is right. Your response here doesn't follow from that exchange at all. I don't get what purpose it serves, it's neither an agreement nor a disagreement on anything substantive. It's not even an agreement to disagree.
     
  6. cincymma79

    cincymma79 Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2013
    Messages:
    14,082
    Likes Received:
    11,222
    We didn’t have the same tax laws then. Got it. If we lowered the rate hit got rid of deductions used before their rate would go up. Got it. The effective rate paid in both eras is about the same. What’s your best argument for increasing their rates 20%?
     
  7. Gandhi

    Gandhi War Room Deep State Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    19,273
    Likes Received:
    12,189
    Location:
    MTL in ORLANDO
    Flat taxes are horribly regressive, so no that would just make things worse. If you want simple let’s go for a land tax.
     
    BarryDillon likes this.
  8. Gandhi

    Gandhi War Room Deep State Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    19,273
    Likes Received:
    12,189
    Location:
    MTL in ORLANDO
    Have you ever met @Kafir-kun before? You silly guy....
     
    Crazy Diamond and Kafir-kun like this.
  9. solmu

    solmu Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Messages:
    894
    Likes Received:
    1,357
    I mainly meant a true flat tax with exemptions for those under the poverty line.
     
  10. Gandhi

    Gandhi War Room Deep State Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    19,273
    Likes Received:
    12,189
    Location:
    MTL in ORLANDO
    How does that address the total lack of progressiveness in taxation for everyone above the poverty line?
     
    Crazy Diamond likes this.
  11. solmu

    solmu Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Messages:
    894
    Likes Received:
    1,357
  12. Letssnuggle

    Letssnuggle Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2016
    Messages:
    1,581
    Likes Received:
    1,383
    The poor pay taxes. HAHAHAHAHAHA
     
  13. Gandhi

    Gandhi War Room Deep State Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    19,273
    Likes Received:
    12,189
    Location:
    MTL in ORLANDO
    Yeah so answer the question instead of providing a link. If you are saying it will be non flat, flat tax, because of step deductions, then that is the exact same thing as having marginal tax rates. Any other impacts, like having less deductions or treating all income the same could be accomplished with current marginal tax rates rather than this non flat “flat tax”.
     
  14. solmu

    solmu Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Messages:
    894
    Likes Received:
    1,357
    Marginal tax rates are considered flat taxes or a "true flat tax". The taxation system in the US however is progressive not proportional.
     
  15. eternaldarkness

    eternaldarkness Brown Belt

    Joined:
    May 26, 2014
    Messages:
    4,793
    Likes Received:
    2,455
    Location:
    Wyrdstone 101
    Typical grubs. Is normal.... bring on the great terror!
     
  16. SammyPops

    SammyPops Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2007
    Messages:
    22,146
    Likes Received:
    14,237
    Location:
    Sitting beside Patient Zero
    I am not a behaviouraly/social economist so I really can't answer that.

    I would assert that the North American model most industrial revolution is unique.
     
  17. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    36,942
    Likes Received:
    36,883
    ??? Again, how does any of this follow from what was being discussed?????

    The effective rate would be higher. That's what was said, that's what you disagree with. The effective rate in both eras are not "about the same". Per the chart in the OP it's under 30% right now. It was 42% in 1950s with significant deduction and credit loopholes. The deduction and credit loopholes have been closed. If the rates went back to the 1950s rates but without the extensive loopholes, the effective rate would be higher than it was then.

    That's the argument - why the effective rate would be higher if we returned to 1950s tax rates.

    The argument is not and was not "Why increase their rates 20%?"
     
    Kafir-kun likes this.
  18. cincymma79

    cincymma79 Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2013
    Messages:
    14,082
    Likes Received:
    11,222
    Your article and the op are different numbers to begin with. 36 and 30 are different. The op is cheating by including capital gains. The effective rate pains in both eras are similar. 36-42. Changing the laws changes the effective rate. Ya. Everyone knows that. Add loopholes and it goes down. You’re not saying anything. But granting you your statement and ignoring all of that, why should they pay 20% today
     
  19. Gandhi

    Gandhi War Room Deep State Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    19,273
    Likes Received:
    12,189
    Location:
    MTL in ORLANDO
    No, marginal tax rates are not flat by definition. Said another way, the marginal tax rate is always constant with a flat tax. A flat tax is proportional not progressive unless you fuck with deductions to make it more like a marginal rate system.

    Also I never commented on the US being proportional, I said it was not progressive enough, case in point if the top are paying less, its actually regressive.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_tax
     
    Kafir-kun and Quipling like this.
  20. THEfightsAREfixed

    THEfightsAREfixed Master Servant

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2018
    Messages:
    3,072
    Likes Received:
    5,719
    we got a small group of rich people, lets call it the modern US techno-corporate oligarchy that the wealth in the country flows up to and stops at, and even if the method of extraction and demographic of the slave class is different, it's really just the same song and dance society has been playing for a long time, the question is if it's an emergent effect from human civilization and if attempts to "balance the scales" will have a destabilizing effect or if it's really actually possible to live in a utopia where everyone is chilling and things are generally cool, it may just be that things aren't messed up but mechanically necessary for society to function, but im not an expert either I'm just a guy who's high on an internet forum tbh but the wealth inequality sure seems fucked up
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.